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In christianity we are tought that the soul, spirit and human are seperate parts in the same individual, is this the same in Islam as well? Also What about the gnostic scriptures the book's of thomas, mary and barabus for instance?
In Christianity we are tought that the Soul,Spirit, and the body are three seperate parts in the same individual is this the same in Islam. Also what about the gnostic text the books of mary, thomas and barabus or the 6th and 7th book of moses? I have read them they sound rather inspired to me.
With all respect to you and to Islam, Woodrow--and I do respect you and your religion, as I hope you've gathered by now--I find that "belief" off-putting. I do believe that Muslims worship the same God I do, and I think that such exclusivity--"only OUR language is the right one!"--comes from humans, not the divine. If you recall, Christianity had a similar issue with Latin if you go back a few years. Only the Latin scripture was considered accurate.
And you are correct about Revelations, although "true" or "not true" might not be a good description. Many Christians, myself included, believe it was an allegory about Rome, although an unkind little part of me suspects there was also some kind of shrooms present on Patmos.
Only the bible-literalist types of Christians see Revelations as some sort of futuristic prediction of the end of the world.
In my opinion it is not a question of a right or wrong language. It is just that no language translates fully into another language. A translation is actually an interpretation of one language into the words of another. the further 2 languages are apart the more inaccurate the translation becomes. Phoenecian, Hebrew, Aramaic and Arabic are basically different dialects of one language. Even so an exact interpretation from one to the other does not exist. I read a Translation of the Torah in Arabic, but my understanding differed from a Jew reading it in Hebrew even though many of the words are the same.
So it is with the Qur'an. Any translation will not have the exact meaning as the original, even though some translations do give a very close interpretation. For that matter the KJV bible written in Arabic does not carry the exact same meaning as the original English. close, but not the same. I have read the KJV in both and in some spots the languages seem to contradict each other. Off hand I can think of lines in Genesis that I find to differ the most. Quite noticible is in the concepts of Youm and the English word Day. the English word day is more specific about being a 24 hour period. Youm is much closer to being any measured unit of time and/or the concept of infinity. In the Arabic KJV the concept of the 7th day can not be conceptualized as the 7th youm will not exist in the Arab mind until it is finished.
In my opinion it is not a question of a right or wrong language. It is just that no language translates fully into another language. A translation is actually an interpretation of one language into the words of another. the further 2 languages are apart the more inaccurate the translation becomes. Phoenecian, Hebrew, Aramaic and Arabic are basically different dialects of one language. Even so an exact interpretation from one to the other does not exist. I read a Translation of the Torah in Arabic, but my understanding differed from a Jew reading it in Hebrew even though many of the words are the same.
So it is with the Qur'an. Any translation will not have the exact meaning as the original, even though some translations do give a very close interpretation. For that matter the KJV bible written in Arabic does not carry the exact same meaning as the original English. close, but not the same. I have read the KJV in both and in some spots the languages seem to contradict each other. Off hand I can think of lines in Genesis that I find to differ the most. Quite noticible is in the concepts of Youm and the English word Day. the English word day is more specific about being a 24 hour period. Youm is much closer to being any measured unit of time and/or the concept of infinity. In the Arabic KJV the concept of the 7th day can not be conceptualized as the 7th youm will not exist in the Arab mind until it is finished.
Thank you. On this I definitely agree--my own daughter is a linguistics major, and I myself have always been fascinated with language (sidebar, if you have not read The Power of Babel, a book about language for the lay person, I suggest it. It's interesting and the author, a professor linguistics, has a sense of humor, as well.)
That makes perfect sense to me rather than that Arabic is some kind of "special" or "holy" language that is superior to all others, which I feared was the belief involved.
Thank you. On this I definitely agree--my own daughter is a linguistics major, and I myself have always been fascinated with language (sidebar, if you have not read The Power of Babel, a book about language for the lay person, I suggest it. It's interesting and the author, a professor linguistics, has a sense of humor, as well.)
That makes perfect sense to me rather than that Arabic is some kind of "special" or "holy" language that is superior to all others, which I feared was the belief involved.
There is some truth to that. I am certain some Muslims do have that attitude. but what I find more often believed, is the words were Holy not necessarily the language. In the sense that Everything God(swt) says is Holy.
A little tidbit. there are quite a few dialects of Arabic, but I do not know of any people who actually speak Qur'anic Arabic. I will get disagreement from Egyptians and Arabs over this but on a personal opinion I find the Yemeni Dialect to be the closest spoken Arabic to the Qur'anic Arabic.
A bit of trivia I speak the Darija dialect and outside of Morocco and Algeria few people can understand a thing I say. fortunately written Arabic is the same world wide.
In my opinion it is not a question of a right or wrong language. It is just that no language translates fully into another language. A translation is actually an interpretation of one language into the words of another. the further 2 languages are apart the more inaccurate the translation becomes. Phoenecian, Hebrew, Aramaic and Arabic are basically different dialects of one language. Even so an exact interpretation from one to the other does not exist. I read a Translation of the Torah in Arabic, but my understanding differed from a Jew reading it in Hebrew even though many of the words are the same.
So it is with the Qur'an. Any translation will not have the exact meaning as the original, even though some translations do give a very close interpretation. For that matter the KJV bible written in Arabic does not carry the exact same meaning as the original English. close, but not the same. I have read the KJV in both and in some spots the languages seem to contradict each other. Off hand I can think of lines in Genesis that I find to differ the most. Quite noticible is in the concepts of Youm and the English word Day. the English word day is more specific about being a 24 hour period. Youm is much closer to being any measured unit of time and/or the concept of infinity. In the Arabic KJV the concept of the 7th day can not be conceptualized as the 7th youm will not exist in the Arab mind until it is finished.
I speak two languages Engish/Spanish fluently and have been playing with my rosetta stone software with Arabic and Hebrew. I have noticed that when speaking in a luanguage you tend to think in that language( Or at least I do) not about that language. Also there was no word for lie in the native american languages(at least to my understanding) before Whiteman Settled. Through time the meaning of words tend to lose their feeling or root emotion, Being used for slang. So if we think therefore we are, is our language us. Much IS lost in translation. In the occult the one of first lessons taught are choose your words wisely for contained within each word is millinea of emotion and power. much is also lost when we forget superstitions. There are reasons for "fairy tails" and they are much deeper and darker than most of us want to admit. Somewhere I read that Torah could be read 4 ways, and each word has 4 dimensions, and only the prophet Solomon could understand it fully. WORDS Hmmmm. Some scholars believe that the word Amen. Which we end our prayers with comes from ancient Egypt and the worship of Amen-Ra. Even our Children scrream " I'M GONNA KILL YOU" to thier brothers and sisters. I'm sure most of them meaning nothing close to the root meaning of the words.
Then there is editing we must always remember to do our research on who compiled the information and why. Make an educated opinion on why it would lean left and right remember history is written by the winners.
Time/Infinity is a whole other side of the equation with as many twists as Religeon. Throw some Quantum mechanics into it figure out exactly what a Day equals to the Entity we call GOD in many languages. Don't forget to account for all known universes(10) So what is a day? One of the legends of Torah are that we are created with 10 fingers to strum the chords of the ten dimensions. And Ten toes to Stand on the ten universes. So what is a day to GOD. Again all just Words.
Last edited by papabear3322; 06-27-2012 at 04:02 PM..
Reason: Capitolization
I speak two languages Engish/Spanish fluently and have been playing with my rosetta stone software with Arabic and Hebrew. I have noticed that when speaking in a luanguage you tend to think in that language( Or at least I do) not about that language. Also there was no word for lie in the native american languages(at least to my understanding) before Whiteman Settled. Through time the meaning of words tend to lose their feeling or root emotion, Being used for slang. So if we think therefore we are, is our language us. Much IS lost in translation. In the occult the one of first lessons taught are choose your words wisely for contained within each word is millinea of emotion and power. much is also lost when we forget superstitions. There are reasons for "fairy tails" and they are much deeper and darker than most of us want to admit. Somewhere I read that Torah could be read 4 ways, and each word has 4 dimensions, and only the prophet Solomon could understand it fully. WORDS Hmmmm. Some scholars believe that the word Amen. Which we end our prayers with comes from ancient Egypt and the worship of Amen-Ra. Even our Children scrream " I'M GONNA KILL YOU" to thier brothers and sisters. I'm sure most of them meaning nothing close to the root meaning of the words.
Then there is editing we must always remember to do our research on who compiled the information and why. Make an educated opinion on why it would lean left and right remember history is written by the winners.
Time/Infinity is a whole other side of the equation with as many twists as Religeon. Throw some Quantum mechanics into it figure out exactly what a Day equals to the Entity we call GOD in many languages. Don't forget to account for all known universes(10) So what is a day? One of the legends of Torah are that we are created with 10 fingers to strum the chords of the ten dimensions. And Ten toes to Stand on the ten universes. So what is a day to GOD. Again all just Words.
Linguistics have long been a hobby of mine. I speak several. but sadly have never relearned my Birth language that I spoke until I was 5 years old. Oddly I can still understand it when I hear it, but can not speak a single word.
I've had the most difficulty with the romantic languages, especially French although my Tex-Mex Spanish is passable. Currently I am trying to learn Lakotah.
I can not say all Enay languages had no word for lie. But, I have also heard it said it was not part of any Enay language until the coming of the white man.
You are also correct in saying the language we speak shapes the thoughts we have.
A good supplement to download and use with Rosetta stone is BYKI from Transperant Language. the free version is a very good vocabulary builder. check it out. The paid version has little to add to the free version and since you have rosetta stone, the Free Byki is all it can add to what you have.
Also there was no word for lie in the native american languages(at least to my understanding) before Whiteman Settled.
I don't know if that's true, but I will ask some of the elders. We do have a word for it in our language: isa?ai (the question mark is part of our alphabet). Personally, I think the word for lie is treaty.
I don't know if that's true, but I will ask some of the elders. We do have a word for it in our language: isa?ai (the question mark is part of our alphabet). Personally, I think the word for lie is treaty.
Thank you. I am also currently learning Cherokee or trying its difficult as I only recently met my father(people on city data actually recently re-united us THX again).Not to mention I recently found out had the blood of "The People" in me. I was raised by a Woman who judged books by their covers so there was much about myself I did not know. The one thing I have been always certain of is that I am a SON of the Living GOD,being a bastard or adopted dosent matter with him. But it has sure been nice to put some heritage behind who I am. Even though my earthly parents didn't raise me I am much like them Both, Some scientists argue today about genetics having nothing to do with your outcome that it is simply enviroment but I would have to disagree. The Woman Who addopted me (GOD BLESS HER SOUL I wouldn't be the man I am without her)did't have many friends of "color" . When asked why She simply replied We just don't associate. I am more like my birth parents who hold no such pre conseived Ideas On creed or color.
So I see your on a Res. How do you interpret the old stories/ways through your Islamic views. The book of Mormon speak of the nephi. There are native family's with the name. Again One World One God?
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