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A bunch of elected, respected members of the congress believed Dick Cheneys “facts” about the existence of chemical weapons in Iraq and took us to war and the destruction of a country, people, and hunted down a man and killed him. Those facts in fact were lies, but who cares. They seemed like facts then. A country destroyed, a society however much the US disapproved of was left in shambles and people were tortured. It was a criminal act.
Oh well. We failed to refine those facts is all.
To rely on facts as truth is as dangerous as to adhere to religious texts indiscriminately. There is only Truth. Everything else is unreliable, and only useful until it is not.
I am not quite that nihilistic. Or to borrow a phrase, I "trust, but verify".
Cheney's alleged WMD were claims, not facts. If politicians and the media and the public gave too much trust to those claims, that is not a bum rap for the actual facts. it just reflects that people with vested interests aren't interested in facts if they conflict with their objectives. And our media is not as trustworthy as we'd like to suppose.
Every claim has to be validated with actual evidence.
Right now it is very difficult to fully trust either side of the Ukraine war, just as in the run-up to and during the Iraq war. Yesterday it was alleged that the Ukrainians had sunk the Russian flagship, a strategically important missile launch platform. Western military confirmed, then unconfirmed. In the end Russia admitted it had sunk while being towed to port in a storm. So now we can be pretty sure the ship is out of play, however that came about. Just not the details. The weather forecast in the area was for 14 mph winds, hardly a "storm", so probably either it was an accidental ordinance explosion or one triggered by Ukranian missile attacks. Either way, embarrassing to and problematic for Russia.
So it goes. You have things presented as facts, which you then must validate to some acceptable margin of error. Sometimes, as with the sunk ship, it's virtually impossible that it will un-sink. Other times, sure, there's the possibility of new information coming into play and changing the conclusion. This does not make the underlying truth of the matter unreliable. It just reflects our own tendencies sloppy thinking combined with out imperfect knowledge. I am however still naive enough to suppose that the truth of most matters CAN be determined, or at least approached. I do not throw the baby out with the bathwater.
I am not quite that nihilistic. Or to borrow a phrase, I "trust, but verify".
Cheney's alleged WMD were claims, not facts. If politicians and the media and the public gave too much trust to those claims, that is not a bum rap for the actual facts. it just reflects that people with vested interests aren't interested in facts if they conflict with their objectives. And our media is not as trustworthy as we'd like to suppose.
Every claim has to be validated with actual evidence.
Right now it is very difficult to fully trust either side of the Ukraine war, just as in the run-up to and during the Iraq war. Yesterday it was alleged that the Ukrainians had sunk the Russian flagship, a strategically important missile launch platform. Western military confirmed, then unconfirmed. In the end Russia admitted it had sunk while being towed to port in a storm. So now we can be pretty sure the ship is out of play, however that came about. Just not the details. The weather forecast in the area was for 14 mph winds, hardly a "storm", so probably either it was an accidental ordinance explosion or one triggered by Ukranian missile attacks. Either way, embarrassing to and problematic for Russia.
So it goes. You have things presented as facts, which you then must validate to some acceptable margin of error. Sometimes, as with the sunk ship, it's virtually impossible that it will un-sink. Other times, sure, there's the possibility of new information coming into play and changing the conclusion. This does not make the underlying truth of the matter unreliable. It just reflects our own tendencies sloppy thinking combined with out imperfect knowledge. I am however still naive enough to suppose that the truth of most matters CAN be determined, or at least approached. I do not throw the baby out with the bathwater.
There you go. You are just proving my point except with a lot more words as if you are saying something important or different. **** happens time and again because we rely on facts, people die, a country is laid waste. I cannot believe one could be so in thrall of "facts" when it is just a mirage we like to believe and act upon, and on top of it feel so superior that you do. It is delusional, no less than what people who trust their religious texts as literal are.
There you go. You are just proving my point except with a lot more words as if you are saying something important or different. **** happens time and again because we rely on facts, people die, a country is laid waste. I cannot believe one could be so in thrall of "facts" when it is just a mirage we like to believe and act upon, and on top of it feel so superior that you do. It is delusional, no less than what people who trust their religious texts as literal are.
This line of dialog is over.
It was not the relying on facts that lead to the war. Much of the World did not believe in WMD in Iraq at the time. There is no such thing as facts that are true in one country but not in other countries whereas the fact that things dropped fall down are facts in all countries and in all times.
Reinvent the meaning of the term facts for your own personal advantage is easily detected and truly a dishonest way of trying to prove that your Truth, whatever that may be , is more dependable that some other Truth
It was not the relying on facts that lead to the war. Much of the World did not believe in WMD in Iraq at the time. There is no such thing as facts that are true in one country but not in other countries whereas the fact that things dropped fall down are facts in all countries and in all times.
Reinvent the meaning of the term facts for your own personal advantage is easily detected and truly a dishonest way of trying to prove that your Truth, whatever that may be , is more dependable that some other Truth
Yes, and they do it all the time. Among the religious there is often a phenomenon of being unable to distinguish between faith and fact.
Yes, and they do it all the time. Among the religious there is often a phenomenon of being unable to distinguish between faith and fact.
It is quite simple, facts are unworthy and faith is the truth. Anyone bringing up the WMD as facts either does not care about facts or does not understand that the Americans accepting it as facts was far from Universal.
It is not that there isn't good things within faith but one should never need to lie or deceive in order to support your faith. Or one "our" side we also should not distort or lie to support our position.
It is quite simple, facts are unworthy and faith is the truth. Anyone bringing up the WMD as facts either does not care about facts or does not understand that the Americans accepting it as facts was far from Universal.
It is not that there isn't good things within faith but one should never need to lie or deceive in order to support your faith. Or one "our" side we also should not distort or lie to support our position.
There you go. You are just proving my point except with a lot more words as if you are saying something important or different. **** happens time and again because we rely on facts, people die, a country is laid waste. I cannot believe one could be so in thrall of "facts" when it is just a mirage we like to believe and act upon, and on top of it feel so superior that you do. It is delusional, no less than what people who trust their religious texts as literal are.
So we are just supposed to give up even trying to determine what is factual or true, I guess. Good luck with that.
There you go. You are just proving my point except with a lot more words as if you are saying something important or different. **** happens time and again because we rely on facts, people die, a country is laid waste. I cannot believe one could be so in thrall of "facts" when it is just a mirage we like to believe and act upon, and on top of it feel so superior that you do. It is delusional, no less than what people who trust their religious texts as literal are.
This line of dialog is over.
Lol, gets refuted again, claims victory, then attempts to stop the conversation.
Lol, gets refuted again, claims victory, then attempts to stop the conversation.
Yeah nothing highlights a failed argument more than the arguer losing their ... er, serenity, picking up their playthings, and stomping off.
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