Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I guess I'll put it blankly.
That comment you made smelled like Pascal's wager
Pascal's wager is foolishness
God concepts as explanations of things are equal in scope and helpfulness to any other "Supernatural" concepts like Karma or supernatural spaghetti monsters
supernatural (other then being an oximoron) is an infinate regress. Just like you can say supernatural, I can say meta-supernatural are existances above merely supernatural gods
Also I mentioned that people have more things to worry about then Pascal's wager. more real and pertenent things we can save them from, like ignorance and religion.
Do you disagrees?
Last edited by LuminousTruth; 07-15-2012 at 07:42 PM..
I guess I'll put it blankly.
That comment you made smelled like Pascal's wager
Pascal's wager is foolishness
God concepts as explanations of things are equal in scope and helpfulness to any other "Supernatural" concepts like Karma or supernatural spaghetti monsters
supernatural (other then being an oximoron) is an infinate regress. Just like you can say supernatural, I can say meta-supernatural are existances above merely supernatural gods
Also I mentioned that people have more things to worry about then Pascal's wager. more real and pertenent things we can save them from, like ignorance and religion.
Do you disagrees?
I disagree, and I've already explained why. I have nothing more to add.
I disagree, and I've already explained why. I have nothing more to add.
Your opinion about the world falling short of your standards of perfection, and the need to grovel to the possible Creators to maybe fix that?
I said more things than would be answered just by your statement of belief... I talked about the foolishness of supernatural wagers, the meaningless void of faith in that if you truly had faith that a glass of water made everything right then you would think it did, I talked about the foolishness of filling gaps in knowledge with oximorons/infinite regresses, the humanism of actually helping people in our physical existence, etc. And now I talk about the foolishness of filling emotional gaps created by religion, with religion. just trying to express my reasoning in a "no pain, no gain" sort of way.
You never explained why supernatural wagers aren't foolishness
You never explained why "a feeling of salvation" couldn't be brought by faith in magic water
You never explained why "The Creator" has to be a god willing/capable of saving people
You never explained why supernatural is UNDEFINED(or undefinable) yet necessary
You never explained why humanism isn't good enough for you.
But you are welcome to have nothing more to add, if that is so true.
I've always rather fancied a God (creator/sustainer) that we can thank and be appreciative of the marvelous awe of its possibility... I've never really felt a need to slave God to ensuring Justice or Happiness or Agreement or what-ever some time in the future. Although I suppose that could be because I've never had my fair share of injustice or unhappiness, unlikely though. The perfection of Goodness in my view doesn't require power and would detest worship... I suppose the perfection of Greatness wouldn't mind it, unless Greatness was Goodness, Evilness wouldn't mind worship, and neither would Neutrality. Great things to think about.
Last edited by LuminousTruth; 07-15-2012 at 09:53 PM..
I have asked this question numerous times of theists and have never received a satisfactory answer. The answers are either a reason why they need me to be saved (recruitment) or some sort of threat of consequences if I am not saved. Most are reticent to state the obvious, although a few rabid evangelicals are happy to send others to their fiery demise. Obviously, due to lack of evidence for this place, I'm no more worried about Hell than I am about being attacked by a Vampire when I walk out of my house.
So...why do I need to be "saved"?
Why are you asking this question if you already know the theology behind the concept?
In Christianity, man is born with "original sin", i.e., separated from God. Being "saved" means you've accepted that God provided a way for you to be reconciled and no longer separated. That's it.
If you don't believe in God (Christian version), then you don't have to worry about it, so again, why the question? It CAN'T be to just have some fun mocking someone else's religion.
Again, I'm not sure to what extent we agree or disagree. All I was intending to say is that if there is a God (not necessarily the Abrahamic God but some Higher Power to whom we are accountable for our behavior and who expects us to obey certain rules), we probably should be thinking in terms of some way to get get back in His/Her/Its good graces since we've obviously fallen short. If there isn't anything after death at all, and there is no Higher Power, we have no need of salvation. In other words, there is nothing to be saved from.
Katz, why would we assume that God expects us to obey certain rules or holds us accountable and is needing us to get back in" God's good graces"?
Aisi, there are 'spiritual' or psychological laws in place just as there are physical laws, and there are always natural consequences for either working in harmony with those laws, or against them. Work against them, and you experience unwanted consequences, and a feeling of separation from others. Wouldn't it make sense that if God is in the business of saving, that it's not from God's displeasure at us breaking those laws? I mean, if God is the type of being who's interested in saving people, certainly that doesn't point to God as being something that gets so pissed off that God is what we need saving from. Rather, that kind of God would be interested in "saving" us from our own psychological wounds, emotional immaturity, or various levels of inability to work with those spiritual/psychological laws and the resulting consequences.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
