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Our existance is the premise for the belief in God...a far cry from fairies and elves. I mean what have they ever done for us?
They are as likely to have created us as a god, since there is zilch evidence for either supposition. Moreover, there is a strong an ancient tradition that fairies live at the bottom of my garden and paint the bluebells. That is a sight more interaction that I ever got from a god.
Because good and evil are human concepts that don't apply to God, and are relative.
Yep. that's why gawd gets to commit mass genocide, murder children and do all those other unspeakably horrible things that we we simpletons call crimes against humanity when a human does it.
Then Bible gawd has the gall to command "thou shalt not kill". What a hypocrite.
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Also, if you had to while away eternity in a grand play, wouldn't you play very hard at times? There wouldn't be much drama if we were all floating around on clouds forever grinning.
No, I wouldn't allow pain and suffering if I had the power to stop it, no matter how bored I became. Of course I am far more wiser, intelligent and loving than the Biblical child-god.
Besides, just like good and evil, drama is a human concept that doesn't apply to God(s).
On the Atheist side, what proof would make you sit up and say: "I was wrong. God exists and Jesus died for our sins. I'm going down to get baptized right now."
What makes you think the "atheist side" is the only one that believes (the Biblical) god and Jesus are utterly absurd and non-believable? You Christian always assume your God and religion are the default.
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and on the Religious side, what would make you sit up and say: "I was wrong. Religion is wrong. Your argument is air tight, sir. I'm going to go shake Dawkins' hand."
I'm not an atheist and I'll shake Dawkins' hand any day.
On the Atheist side, what proof would make you sit up and say: "I was wrong. God exists and Jesus died for our sins. I'm going down to get baptized right now."
and on the Religious side, what would make you sit up and say: "I was wrong. Religion is wrong. Your argument is air tight, sir. I'm going to go shake Dawkins' hand."
Can anyone provide me with the parameters we're using to prove or disprove our viewpoint?
Well...my argument is twofold.
(1) since so much water has flowed under the bridge, carrying with it washed -away shores of theist claims that to ask what would make me think that (if I paraphrase you) the Bible was factually accurate and the claims of Christianity true would be like someone asking me 'what would convince you that the earth was flat, and al the celestial objects trundling round on the inside of a dome. There is no way back even to the Ptolemaic system.
(2) On the other hand, there is one a simple miracle as someone telling me that they are going to pray to Jesusgod for the bottle of water on my desk to turn to wine. If it does, I shall convert to Christianity.
As I have said before, not only has this not come about but nobody has even had enough faith to tel me they were going to try it. They know as well as I do that the answered prayer claim is self delusion and that the stuff that happens is nothing to do with God.
I listen to them tell me (in heated debate) what God can and can't do or interpret or even retranslate His Holy Word and I am sure that I am listening to people arguing for their own credit, not God's
There may be genuine god -believers out there, but i have a conviction that many of them really only believe in a deified version of themselves.
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
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It would be best if I summarize my beliefs because they're a bit confusing and don't fit well into established categories. I believe in God, but certainly not in the Old Testament god. Jesus may have known a thing or two about the real God or perhaps some other power. I believe in evolution, probably guided lightly. While I believe God exists, that's because of personal evidence - I don't believe there is a good objective proof.
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Originally Posted by AREQUIPA
........Translation into English from Theist 'Good is whatever God says it is. God can do whatever He likes. What are you going to do about it?' Love it. It is one of the top two deconverters there are.
Not at all what I meant, but we can run with it a bit. How is good and evil defined by atheists? Just "I know what's right and what's wrong!" But everyone believes differently about that. Your definition of good and evil is very different from those of ancient Spartans, Mother Teresa, certain tribes in Africa who practice genital mutilation of girls, Mitt Romney, or James Holmes. Whaddya gonna do about it?
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Originally Posted by MrBlueSky_
Yep. that's why gawd gets to commit mass genocide, murder children and do all those other unspeakably horrible things that we we simpletons call crimes against humanity when a human does it.
Then Bible gawd has the gall to command "thou shalt not kill". What a hypocrite.
No, I wouldn't allow pain and suffering if I had the power to stop it, no matter how bored I became. Of course I am far more wiser, intelligent and loving than the Biblical child-god.
Besides, just like good and evil, drama is a human concept that doesn't apply to God(s).
I don't believe God has every ordered the execution of people (don't believe the Bible is the Word of God). I'm guessing about the drama thing.
What makes you think the "atheist side" is the only one that believes (the Biblical) god and Jesus are utterly absurd and non-believable? You Christian always assume your God and religion are the default.
I'm not an atheist and I'll shake Dawkins' hand any day.
As all religions under the banner of Christianity make up roughly 2.1 billion people and the closest religion afterward has 600 million less adherents, that is the default position that makes the most sense to take. Especially on a website that covers mostly western society. Given that the numbers are overwhelmingly in favor of Christianity as a default, can you suggest what religion would be better to take as a default position? Or perhaps could you give what your definition of 'default' is so I can understand your eye-rolling? I want to make sure this isn't a case of English not being your first language and you not understanding what the term means.
Also, could you answer the original question of what proof you would accept?
As all religions under the banner of Christianity make up roughly 2.1 billion people and the closest religion afterward has 600 million less adherents, that is the default position that makes the most sense to take.
We're not actually talking religion we're talking about atheists becoming believers in a "God". Atheists would more likely become Deists, which isn't a religion but just a more rational belief in God than that of Christianity or other organized religions. Once you acheive a certain level of reason & rational thought, Christianity is no more an option for belief than Santa Clause or the Easter Bunny.
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Also, could you answer the original question of what proof you would accept?
Proof I would accept of what? Being a Deist I already accept that there is a Creator of some sort. There's no proof I would accept of the Bible and its god since both have overwhelming evidence demonstrating their human origins.
As all religions under the banner of Christianity make up roughly 2.1 billion people and the closest religion afterward has 600 million less adherents, that is the default position that makes the most sense to take. Especially on a website that covers mostly western society. Given that the numbers are overwhelmingly in favor of Christianity as a default, can you suggest what religion would be better to take as a default position? Or perhaps could you give what your definition of 'default' is so I can understand your eye-rolling? I want to make sure this isn't a case of English not being your first language and you not understanding what the term means.
This is sort of like the Fox News #1 claim. Yes there are more Christians than any other religion but there are more non-christians than Christians by an overwhelming majority.
Because good and evil are human concepts that don't apply to God, and are relative.
Also, if you had to while away eternity in a grand play, wouldn't you play very hard at times? There wouldn't be much drama if we were all floating around on clouds forever grinning.
CHildren dying of cancer is not amusing drama, its tragedy that should not happen.
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