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June it's not just the religious that are not afraid of death it's also those that are believers of spiritualism. Anyone who has a belief in a Creator, regardless of what your belief is, has no fear of death. It's that belief that life in this world continues on in the spirit world, whether it's real or not. Every culture and every religion has a belief in an afterlife and that is why most believers in some sort of afterlife have no fear of death.
June is well aware that every world religion or belief system has some kind of belief in the after life, hence, there is no reason to have fear of death and that upon their demise the individual will be re-united with his or her creator. June always wondered, however, whether or not this was largely fear based, regardless of what religion. A part of June has now changed her mind regarding fear of death among certain populations: the believers in a Creator or a God. This is a drastic reformation of June's thought process and prior preconceptions. She ponders the fact that death is not necessarily fear based, but rather, a true entity to those who are believers in a power greater than themselves, be it belief in a Creator or Jesus Christ.
June may grieve the loss of her friend, but at the same time has experienced that which she would never have thought truly existed.
Some times there exists a new order within, in viewing first hand what others believe and feel regarding fear of death. And to be honest, on some level, Junes finds it envious, as she greatly fears death....But alas, June is not a believer, but nonetheless envies those who are, in terms of not possessing a fear of death.
June fears her own self extinction, and up until this point believed that on some level all individuals did as well. There is always much to learn...
June will of course have to find her own way, but about the fear of death there is indeed much to learn as the fear of death is a deep - seated instinct which, like fear of heights or fear of the dark, can be overcome by facing those fears.
A couple of things that June might ponder -
(1) perhaps she was quite right to think that religious faith was based on fear of death. If not, why is the anesthetizing of it with belief in heaven and so on so impressive and necessary?
(1a) (just for a change ) If Arequipa can lose his fear of death and indeed feelings of grief when friends or relatives die - it is a loss that can't be mended by mourning - would that not be a way to achieve the same result? Arequipa does not fear death, though severe pain is feared and rightly so, but he does greatly fear the undeserved credit a myth may gain by making its believers look so very happy.
I don't fear death... it's an inevitable, not like i can avoid it. I'll do all i can to put it off but that's not fear, it's just that i'm quite happy existing. It'll come at the end of my life and then there will be nothing. What's to fear?
All animals have an innate sense of self preservation. But, the difference between humans and other creatures is truly remarkable. An antelope for example, will experience a gripping fear for it's life while being chased down by a predator like a lion. If it manages to escape however, after a reasonably short time, it will go back to grazing just like it was doing before, and all will be well again. Humans, on the other hand, are the only animals with the ability to ponder and dwell on death and worry themselves sick over it. That's a price we pay for this wonderful gift of thought.
Our fear of death arises from that innate sense for self preservation. We manifest it by worrying about it. We may not have lions chasing us, but we have plenty of other things to always remind us about the nearness of death.
Some of us learn to cope with that worry inwardly (through introspection, meditation, etc.) and others do so outwordly (through religion). Coping is something that we learn however, like a form of conditioning. It is a form of taming the mind.
It's easy to intellectualize this stuff. The real test comes when we are told by a doctor that our remaining time is limited.
But regardless of how we choose to cope, it is beneficial for us so that we don't stress about the fear of dying and are able to get on with the business of living..... living in the present.
Most people I know (atheists and theists alike) don't fear death so much as they fear dying young or dying painfully, or both. If I can live to be 90ish and have an "easy" death, that'd be the best. But dying young before I can truly experience the joys of growing old/having kids/grand kids/retiring/traveling as much as I can in one lifetime? I fear that. Dying painfully, knowing my last few moments of existence will be dreary and in agony? I fear that. Losing loved ones early or too young also scares me. But the nonexistence that comes when I do die? I don't fear that at all.
(1) perhaps she was quite right to think that religious faith was based on fear of death. If not, why is the anesthetizing of it with belief in heaven and so on so impressive and necessary?
If June understands you correctly, you are asking why a belief in an after life (heaven) would be so necessary. (Yes? No?) June believes that the human mind is basically unable to truly wrap itself around the concept or notion of it's own non-existence. June believes that we think we can conceptualize our own self extinction and non-existence, but on an unconscious level there exists a fear of one's own "non being." --Because of that, on a conscious level, as human beings we need to know that we will somehow continue to exist, vis-a-vis in a place where we can reside. Heaven provides all the wonders and perfections that "heaven" has to offer. It is something of a compulsion in the human mind to create a place (an after life) that soothes the unconscious fear. If June believed that she had a wonderful place to go to after her June-based demise, then June would fear death on a far lower scale. Furthermore, if June believed that she would continue on and meet her creator, then the fear index lowers itself that much more. On a conscious level an after life has much to provide and offer in terms of one's being able to continue to exist, and to do so on in a place of perfection. The unconscious (which holds the fear of death) creates a conscious place to go where we can still exist (June hopes that makes sense, but fears that her psychotherapist self came across, and not so well.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Areuipa[/QUOTE
A(1a) (just for a change ) If Arequipa can lose his fear of death and indeed feelings of grief when friends or relatives die - it is a loss that can't be mended by mourning - would that not be a way to achieve the same result?
First off, June has to say that she is thrilled senseless that Areuipa would also resort to the third person genre! Touche!
However, June is afraid she doesn't understand what you are asking in the above. June would ask that you re-phrase what you are saying such that her June mind can understand and respond.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Areuipa
....but he does greatly fear the undeserved credit a myth may gain by making its believers look so very happy.
To a Christian death is not dying, but another stage of life, of course I will be extinct from this Earth and my body a mere shell but the soul lives on to meet the Lord's judgement and I know that I am destined for heaven.
If June understands you correctly, you are asking why a belief in an after life (heaven) would be so necessary. (Yes? No?) June believes that the human mind is basically unable to truly wrap itself around the concept or notion of it's own non-existence. June believes that we think we can conceptualize our own self extinction and non-existence, but on an unconscious level there exists a fear of one's own "not being." --Because of that, on a conscious level, as human beings we need to know that we will somehow continue to exist, vis-a-vis in a place where we can reside. Heaven provides all the wonders and perfections that "heaven" has to offer. It is something of a compulsion in the human mind to create a place (an after life) that soothes the unconscious fear. If June believed that she had a wonderful place to go to after her June-based demise, then June would fear death on a far lower scale. Furthermore, if June believed that she would continue on and meet her creator, then the fear index lowers itself that much more. On a conscious level an after life has much to provide and offer in terms of one's being able to continue to exist, and to do so on in a place of perfection. The unconscious (which holds the fear of death) creates a conscious place to go where we can still exist (June hopes that makes sense, but fears that her psychotherapist self came across, and not so well.)
A(1a) (just for a change ) If Arequipa can lose his fear of death and indeed feelings of grief when friends or relatives die - it is a loss that can't be mended by mourning - would that not be a way to achieve the same result?
First off, June has to say that she is thrilled senseless that Areuipa would also resort to the third person genre! Touche!
However, June is afraid she doesn't understand what you are asking in the above. June would ask that you re-phrase what you are saying such that her June mind can understand and respond.
June approves this ^^ message.[/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arequipa
answer two questions at once, the point is that Arequipa..danggitt..I was a bit put out by June's...darngitt ..your being so deeply impressed by the serene and confident demeanour of the believers ion the face of death, when this atheist at least seems to be able to achieve a comparable placidity without the need for belief in a god.
If I may recap an older post, this does not necessarily rule out an afterlife, but in fact enhances it since, if there is one, be sure the loved one got it and without the need to worry about going to live with Jesus and it turns out to be Muhammad at the pearly gates.
June does not see the after life as being a Cub Med persay. There is no guarantee for the believer who arrives at those pearly gates that they will be greeted by the God of their choice. What has always been a question in June's mind is how is there a rock solid guarantee that they will have the God of their choice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Areuipa
It is an absolute pleasure to be able just for one post to have an excuse to replicate that most appealing third person mode of speech which is June's particular trademark.
Join the movement my friend. Viva the third person! Convert now!
I have no fear of death. That isn't being disingenuous. It's just the truth. Only an ignoramus will say I'm being disingenuous. It's also arrogent and presumptuous to assume nonbelievers are being disingenuous when they say they have no fear of death. It's no different than if I were to say you are being disingenuous when you say you have no fear of death.
The answer two questions at once, the point is that Arequipa..danggitt..I was a bit put out by June's...darngitt ..your being so deeply impressed by the serene and confident demeanour of the believers ion the face of death, when this atheist at least seems to be able to achieve a comparable placidity without the need for belief in a god.
If I may recap an older post, this does not necessarily rule out an afterlife, but in fact enhances it since, if there is one, be sure the loved one got it and without the need to worry about going to live with Jesus and it turns out to be Muhammad at the pearly gates.
As to the third Q. It is an absolute pleasure to be able just for one post to have an excuse to replicate that most appealing third person mode of speech which is June's particular trademark.
June needs to ponder the above, and will do so during a two hour eye exam. (The audacity of some doctors! Two hours ??? )
June is just thrilled that you would borrow her trademark, and would encourage you to utilize it more often in the future. June is more than happy to share her "trademark!"
Will respond a bit later this afternoon or early evening.
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) If Arequipa can lose his fear of death and indeed feelings of grief when friends or relatives die - it is a loss that can't be mended by mourning - would that not be a way to achieve the same result? Arequipa does not fear death, though severe pain is feared and rightly so, but he does greatly fear the undeserved credit a myth may gain by making its believers look so very happy.
