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I am having a dark night of the soul per se. As I struggle with Christianity, it is impossible to ignore what alot of Christians are doing.. There is alot of visceral hate I see spread daily on tv, on the internet, on the radio and it makes no sense.Aren't Christians suppose to be loving,nice,peaceful people? I keep running into power hungry,racist,homophobic,sexist,war/gun loving,greedy,islamophobic, ethnocentrism and the list goes on.I hardly ever see about those who want to help the less fortune,or those who want equal rights for everyone, or welcoming those who are down and out. Well I have only been on this earth for a small amount of time, but has it always been this way? Maybe it has, and I'm just finally waking up? How can I choose this religion when its filled with such contradiction
. . .and this is precisely why after 25 years of being involved in the so-called "Christian Church," I walked away from it 6 years ago. The more I questioned, compared, analyzed and pondered upon this religion, the more contradictory it seemed, the less sense it made.
One thing which baffled me immensely was to witness how some people professed their faith in order to excuse their irresponsibility. For example, I once met a Christian who owed the gov't several thousand dollars in back-taxes. He declared how he had faith to believe that God would somehow make his debt simply go away. The Christian-like responsible thing to do would've been to approach the IRS, admit your misdoings and work out a payback schedule. Then, plead with God to give you the ability to make wealth and repay your debt.
There are a gamut of other examples which I could cough up. But, what for? It's a mute point.
God is great. God is good. Christianized religiosity? Not so much!
Strange things happen when ignorance collides head on with religion. (This phrase has to be T-shirt worthy!)
Last edited by chacho_keva; 08-12-2012 at 12:04 PM..
The OP is looking in all the wrong places. Christians are being Christ-like everyday, all around the world. It's just not news-worthy. Most of it happens behind the scenes. I see it all the time.
I belong to a mega-church. We operate a free medical and dental clinic and a food pantry, all funded by the church. We hand out free coats, toys, and groceries at Christmas. We send missionaries to foriegn countries to aid in building projects and medical treatments. We care for widows, orphans, and the elderly. That's to say nothing of the benevolence ministry we operate for people who come in off the street.
The great part is, thousands of churches, large and small, all over the world do the same.
Exactly. Those things don't make the news, unless a feel-good piece is done once in a while in the newspaper.
And no, no one is saying that atheists and members of other religions aren't doing these things, too, but the Christian church is probably the largest group involved in running soup kitchens and food pantries, just because they are the majority religion.
In Paterson, NJ, there's a mosque that runs a food pantry, for example.
One thing for sure is atheists aren't hypocrites. They've murdered more people than any group. Stalin, Pol Pot, North Korean leaders, Chinese leaders. And why shouldn't they? There is no reason to be here so to wipe out another human is no problem. Wipe out 50 million or a hundred million, who cares? You never hear of a Christian Universalist doing wrong to another human.
Blatant misuse of information, and as noted by others here, also quite inaccurate. but sadly predictable and also just as sadly oft-repeated.
NOTE: Every time someone repeats it they demonstrate their chosen intransigence and narrow world view, Eusebius, old pal. Why not try to upgrade your personal argument base?
Anyhow, it's all pure religious propaganda. Hitler was also a Christian, sort of. But his personal mental "neuronitis" was his own, and comes under the heading of mental illness. You can't attribute that to a lack of belief in a specific God. Or will you, despite the evidence?
(I'll bet that the Sihk Temple killer, a white superiority type, was likely a devout Christian. You wanna bet? If so, is it then all his church's fault? Or better yet, your God's?)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L'Artiste
well this thread isn't going the way i wanted
You got that right L'Art!Sheizze happens however.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801
Exactly. Those things don't make the news, unless a feel-good piece is done once in a while in the newspaper.
And no, no one is saying that atheists and members of other religions aren't doing these things, too, but the Christian church is probably the largest group involved in running soup kitchens and food pantries, just because they are the majority religion.
In Paterson, NJ, there's a mosque that runs a food pantry, for example.
Uhmmm... but unlike most church groups, MQ, atheists just don't feel it's necessary to say "Oh by the way, we arrogantly have to let all you good folks know that this is a church function!" We don't center our lives on deity worship and the assumption that He has got His Mighty Hand in literally everything, esp. when in fact we "know" He doesn't even [likely...] exist! It's because He doesn't generally pre-occupy our daily thoughts and ideals. After all, we have to spend time on the purposing of our miserable lives, don't you know....
Look up "Doctors without Borders" will you? A major do-gooder in this world, and oh yeah: specifically No Religious Affiliation. By definition.
They single-handedly outdo literally hundreds of Christian organizations combined. And no, it's not a competition, but theists love to claim we atheists have no purpose nor any do-good intentions, that we're all just a bunch of selfish greedy and love-less egotists. <yawn>
Mostly that attitude describes the religious organizations in this world, IMHO!
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
8,297 posts, read 14,166,733 times
Reputation: 8105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
One thing for sure is atheists aren't hypocrites. They've murdered more people than any group. Stalin, Pol Pot, North Korean leaders, Chinese leaders......
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meester-Chung
how many time you are ging to repeat that christianist propaganda? those leaders were not athiests. Stalin grow uip as a christian and went to asiminary school , Pol Pot was catholic, Mao Zedong was a bhuddist who had a bhuddist mother, north korean leaders like Kim Il Sung are diefied and he and his sons are treated as gods. Kim'd birth was described as an holy event, and north korea is centred on the worship of Kim il sung and his sons and grandsons.
......
Just to be a little more accurate, Eusebius is probably right. Stalin, Pol Pot, and Mao were Marxists (Maoism is one form), and Marxism is an officially atheist philosophy. It really doesn't matter what they believed or were identified with as children, what mattered was their belief system at the time of leadership.
Of course we can't ask them what they believed ...... it's possible that they wrote it down but probably none of us have read their biographies. At this time the default would be atheism. I've never known a Marxist who believed in God, although one or two had vaguely Buddhist beliefs, but Buddhism is nontheistic.
Blatant misuse of information, and as noted by others here, also quite inaccurate. but sadly predictable and also just as sadly oft-repeated.
NOTE: Every time someone repeats it they demonstrate their chosen intransigence and narrow world view, Eusebius, old pal. Why not try to upgrade your personal argument base?
Anyhow, it's all pure religious propaganda. Hitler was also a Christian, sort of. But his personal mental "neuronitis" was his own, and comes under the heading of mental illness. You can't attribute that to a lack of belief in a specific God. Or will you, despite the evidence?
(I'll bet that the Sihk Temple killer, a white superiority type, was likely a devout Christian. You wanna bet? If so, is it then all his church's fault? Or better yet, your God's?)
You got that right L'Art!Sheizze happens however.
Uhmmm... but unlike most church groups, MQ, atheists just don't feel it's necessary to say "Oh by the way, we arrogantly have to let all you good folks know that this is a church function!" We don't center our lives on deity worship and the assumption that He has got His Mighty Hand in literally everything, esp. when in fact we "know" He doesn't even [likely...] exist! It's because He doesn't generally pre-occupy our daily thoughts and ideals. After all, we have to spend time on the purposing of our miserable lives, don't you know....
Look up "Doctors without Borders" will you? A major do-gooder in this world, and oh yeah: specifically No Religious Affiliation. By definition.
They single-handedly outdo literally hundreds of Christian organizations combined. And no, it's not a competition, but theists love to claim we atheists have no purpose nor any do-good intentions, that we're all just a bunch of selfish greedy and love-less egotists. <yawn>
Mostly that attitude describes the religious organizations in this world, IMHO!
My old childhood doctor just died last week. His family asked that donations be sent to Doctors Without Borders. Good organization. Don't need to look it up, rofl. Heard of it years ago. One of the reasons I think it is successful is because it operates independent of religious (and political) interference. I'm sure there are doctors volunteering there who are driven to do so because of their religious beliefs, however, just as I am sure there are doctors who are driven to do so for non-religious reasons.
I don't personally know any theists who "love to claim" what you say, or who have even ever discussed atheists at all now that I think about it, but if you've experienced that, I'm not going to call you a liar. I just know that most of the social help/food pantry/soup kitchen/clothing distribution organizations I know of locally are run by churches, and no, they don't make it known that they are Christian organizations necessarily or use the organization to prosyletize, at least not the independent ones. As a matter of fact, the biggest one around, at which I volunteer, was started by a predominantly black Episcopal church 28 years ago, and a woman in my (Episcopal) church had no idea until recently that it was a church-run organization.
Some of the larger organizations, like The Salvation Army, obviously make their religious affiliations known.
Last edited by Mightyqueen801; 08-12-2012 at 01:54 PM..
Just to be a little more accurate, Eusebius is probably right. Stalin, Pol Pot, and Mao were Marxists (Maoism is one form), and Marxism is an officially atheist philosophy. It really doesn't matter what they believed or were identified with as children, what mattered was their belief system at the time of leadership.
Of course we can't ask them what they believed ...... it's possible that they wrote it down but probably none of us have read their biographies. At this time the default would be atheism. I've never known a Marxist who believed in God, although one or two had vaguely Buddhist beliefs, but Buddhism is nontheistic.
Marxism is an economic and political theory it has nothing to do with atheism.
I am having a dark night of the soul per se. As I struggle with Christianity, it is impossible to ignore what alot of Christians are doing.. There is alot of visceral hate I see spread daily on tv, on the internet, on the radio and it makes no sense.Aren't Christians suppose to be loving,nice,peaceful people? I keep running into power hungry,racist,homophobic,sexist,war/gun loving,greedy,islamophobic, ethnocentrism and the list goes on. I hardly ever see about those who want to help the less fortune,or those who want equal rights for everyone, or welcoming those who are down and out. Well I have only been on this earth for a small amount of time, but has it always been this way? Maybe it has, and I'm just finally waking up? How can I choose this religion when its filled with such contradiction
Why do you feel you have to "choose" a religion?
That is where your problem may be. and causing you to have a "dark night of the soul" (simply a guilt trip invented by man to make you choose a religion, most likely his religion)
If you believe in a creator, why feel you need to "choose" a religion that was began by men, branched off into many religions, by the hate, greed and pride of man.
I went through a little of what you talk about a number of years ago after pretty much being forced to "choose" their religion, which was very strictly literal, and male dominated..That lasted for well over 40 years until I simply said "enough"..I turned my back on religion and found peace within myself because I am a believer, but carry no label to associate me with the many things I cannot accept in the religion of man..
When I see or hear about the good works of man, I never wonder, ask or care what religion he is or isn't..There is goodness and kindness abounding in most people despite their beliefs or non beliefs..
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
8,297 posts, read 14,166,733 times
Reputation: 8105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meester-Chung
Marxism is an economic and political theory it has nothing to do with atheism.
It also has a philosophy called "Dialectical Materialism", which was referred to by Marx and Engels. It's not cut and dried, there have been many Marxist philosophers since the late 19th century when Marx wrote, but here's the gist of it:
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The basic Marxist idea is that everything can be explained by one thing -- Matter. Matter is the total explanation for space, nature, man, psychic consciousness, human intelligence and every other aspect of existence. Marxism then assigns the task of knowing all truth to science. If science can get to know everything about matter, then it can get to know about everything. Conclusively, matter is accepted as the beginning and ending of all reality. Taking the concept of matter, Marxism then sets forth to answer three questions: What is the origin of energy or motion in nature? What causes galaxies, solar system, planets, animals and all kingdoms of nature to constantly increase their numerical quantity? What is the origin of life, the origin of species and the origin of consciousness and mind? Marx and Engels answer all of these questions with three laws. The law of opposites, the law of negation and the law of transformation [which includes the origins of life and consciousness - Woof] Marxist philosophy of nature - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Under Origins of Life, we find the following summary:
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Marxists believe that new forms in nature are not the result of gradual change but that quantitative multiplication gradually builds up momentum for a "leap" in nature which produces a change or a new species. They believe that incidental to one of these leaps, the phenomenon of consciousness emerged. The creature became aware of the forces which were playing on it. Then at an even higher level another form of life appeared with the capacity to work with these impressions and to arrange them in associations. Thus mind evolved as an intelligent, self-knowing, self-determining quality in matter. However, matter is primary and mind is secondary. Therefore there can be no soul and no God. They believe that everything in existence came as a result of objective tendencies (i.e. movement, negation, etc.) inherent in nature. There is no law, or design, or God. Only matter and force in nature. As for man, he is an accident like all other forms of life except he had the good fortune to possess the highest intelligence in existence. This is said to make man the real god of himself and the universe.
Location: where people are either too stupid to leave or too stuck to move
3,982 posts, read 6,688,919 times
Reputation: 3689
[quote=Miss Blue;25603295]
Quote:
Originally Posted by L'Artiste
Why do you feel you have to "choose" a religion?
That is where your problem may be. and causing you to have a "dark night of the soul" (simply a guilt trip invented by man to make you choose a religion, most likely his religion)
If you believe in a creator, why feel you need to "choose" a religion that was began by men, branched off into many religions, by the hate, greed and pride of man.
I went through a little of what you talk about a number of years ago after pretty much being forced to "choose" their religion, which was very strictly literal, and male dominated..That lasted for well over 40 years until I simply said "enough"..I turned my back on religion and found peace within myself because I am a believer, but carry no label to associate me with the many things I cannot accept in the religion of man..
When I see or hear about the good works of man, I never wonder, ask or care what religion he is or isn't..There is goodness and kindness abounding in most people despite their beliefs or non beliefs..
jmho
maybe i should have said choose a belief, because thats what i meant, i'm having trouble believing in the christian god.. well not believe he exist, just believing he actually cares or isn't smoking a cigarette laughing at us until we die and he throws us in his cigarette ashes for all eternity.
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Don't need to look it up, rofl. Heard of it years ago. One of the reasons I think it is successful is because it operates independent of religious (and political) interference. I'm sure there are doctors volunteering there who are driven to do so because of their religious beliefs, however, just as I am sure there are doctors who are driven to do so for non-religious reasons.
