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Old 08-31-2012, 02:47 AM
 
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This is a very good article and still pertinent to this discussion: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/04/world/europe/04iht-schools.4.7755476.html

This is a very well written article that I think explains the views of those that believe that Creationism should be taught in schools (as I do) but only in the context of religious studies, not in terms of science: Is teaching creationism in RE really controversial? | Teacher Network Blog | Guardian Professional

And this is what some of the world thinks of this issue with regards to teaching Creationism in schools: Creation and evolution in public education - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 08-31-2012, 02:51 AM
 
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Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post

did you get the point that your remark about bacteria is still bacteria is so missing the point about evolution that it is is clear that you either don't know what the theory is or you you are ignoring it ?
Bacteria developing resitance to an antibiotic, or a mosquito developing resistance to an insecticide is adaptation, not so called "evolution". The bacteria is still bacteria, the mosquito is still a mosquito (it hasn't become a hummingbird).
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Old 08-31-2012, 03:01 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
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Its clear that Fundamentalist (or at least misquided) religion is using any method - the law, demagoguery or outright subversive propaganda, like sendiing misinformation packs to supporters in educational positions (Like Taliban sleepers in the Afghan security) - to try to force creation myth onto the educational curriculum.

These bods deserve a slap - down or sacking, but of course one has to be careful not lo feed martrydom or look dictatorial. The fact is that we have been lazy, relying on 'The textbook says so' to carry it through. What is needed is easy to understand, fully informative and entertaining videos explaining why evolution is much the better explanation for the evidence and frankly why literal Bible - creation is false, while also explaining - and this is an essential point for evolutionists to take on board and USE -that evolution does NOT deny God nor even the Bible because few believers really take the Garden of Eden and the apple and talking lizard as anything but a metaphor.

We badly need to counter this idea of Creationism as an article of Faith. It isn't. It is an article of fanaticism.
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Old 08-31-2012, 03:04 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
Bacteria developing resitance to an antibiotic, or a mosquito developing resistance to an insecticide is adaptation, not so called "evolution". The bacteria is still bacteria, the mosquito is still a mosquito (it hasn't become a hummingbird).
Resistant bacteria would be a different organism, however. It's genetics would be different. Adaption is part of evolution.

You are using the fallacy of 'kinds'.
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Old 08-31-2012, 03:19 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ArtieE View Post
"The Biblical picture is clearly geocentric. The earth has the shape of a flat disc so that if one were able to travel far enough, one would eventually arrive at the 'ends of the earth'" Jewish Cosmology Louis Jacobs is a rabbi and a lecturer in the Talmud.
Chaldean astrologers knew the existence of planets that our modern astronomers didn't discover until the 19th century. Do you really imagine they didn't understand the relationship between the Sun and the planets?
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Old 08-31-2012, 03:31 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
Resistant bacteria would be a different organism, however. It's genetics would be different. Adaption is part of evolution.

You are using the fallacy of 'kinds'.
If a human develops HIV and loses resistance to disease, does the human become a different species?
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Old 08-31-2012, 03:37 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Baldrick View Post
This is a very well written article that I think explains the views of those that believe that Creationism should be taught in schools (as I do) but only in the context of religious studies, not in terms of science: Is teaching creationism in RE really controversial? | Teacher Network Blog | Guardian Professional
I think every kind of creationism belongs in the RE curriculum as examples of how inventive humans can be. Creator Deities "Mbombo of Bakuba mythology, who vomited out the world upon feeling a stomach ache" "Atum in Ennead, whose semen becomes the primal components of the universe"
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Old 08-31-2012, 03:43 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
If a human develops HIV and loses resistance to disease, does the human become a different species?
No. But there are about 6.5 million species of land animals on the planet today, how did a few thousand animals on the Ark become 6.5 million species without evolution? Anyone teaching creation would have to tackle that problem too.
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Old 08-31-2012, 03:44 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
If a human develops HIV and loses resistance to disease, does the human become a different species?
No, you silly person, because the causes of these effects are not comparable. Bacteria do not have immune systems as we do. And a human with HIV does not become susceptible to disease because their genes are altered, its because the virus prevents their inherent immune system from functioning as its DNA allows it to.

As for mosquitoes, that is probably the closest you've come to a good question, because the mosquito's immune system either protects it from the specific poison or it doesn't. What happens is, some part of that mosquito population has some genetic oddity that prevents some chemical of the poison from killing it; they are already resistant. The population that doesn't have that oddity, dies off. What you are left with is a main population who all have the anomaly now, and only they breed further mosquitoes.
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Old 08-31-2012, 03:46 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
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Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
Bacteria developing resitance to an antibiotic, or a mosquito developing resistance to an insecticide is adaptation, not so called "evolution". The bacteria is still bacteria, the mosquito is still a mosquito (it hasn't become a hummingbird).
Adaptation IS evolution. Your attempt to claim that change is not evolution (micro-evolution exists within species but macro - evolution, for some unexplained reason is apparently impossible) with the absurd butrly to mammoth nonsense that Creationists (or creationist -misled theists) come out with is just and (admittedly persuasive) refusal to accept the evolution mechanism until an undeniable species -change happens in from of your eyes.

Well, I understand that. We have several transitional species (seals, dolphins, penguins) and it would be nice if one duplicated the Cetan sequence and became a different kind of animal entirely. But the fact remains that the facts all support (and even prove) evolution and none whatsoever support Creation.
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