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Inexplicable and short-sighted logical fallacies highlighted in BLUE.
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Originally Posted by RuralMissionary
The existence of the universe is proof enough for a cause. Who is that cause? You have 2 choices. It was either an intelligent, personal being, or it wasn't.
I can disprove the idea that it was an impersonal cause. There is something called necessary and sufficient cause. It basically states that if both are present, the event automatically happens. If so, the universe would have been created an infinite amount of time ago...not 14 billion years, or whatever number is in vogue lately. Thus, an intelligent creator must have been the "sufficient cause" to complement the "necessary cause" that already existed.
Having said that....since we know that half of the antonymic pair is disproved, the only alternative is that there was a personal, intelligent being that created the universe.
Hawking has shown, in his most recent video, that obviously, time comes to a standstill in the black hole. Thus, given that there was no prior time-frame, no existing chronology, no god could have existed. As well, as Stephen points out so eloquently (and has obviously been reading MY posts, which have asked this same question over and over ), the outstanding question about the so-called necessity for a managed and directed Genesis event, "WHY".
The answer to this is obvious: Christians require some outer theistic entity to guarantee their absolute need for an afterlife, to assuage their personally disabling fear of death. What is there to be "deathly" afraid of [], one asks?
Many (all?) Christians rely heavily and absolutely on this afterlife idea, and of not being caught without a recent all-encompassing sin-absolving confession, that they do it all the time, so as to not get caught with their spiritual pants down around their ankles.
They also present to us the true basis for their own near-paranoid delusional thoughts with the good old "Pascal's Wager" idiocy, the "Oh... but what if you're wrong?" fear-scape. Good on yah if it provides some sort of holy-righteous perspective!
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Originally Posted by Vansdad
No facts that our limited human minds can find to make it available to everyone. Still it does not prove anything.
True enough, so why not then accept and position your own philosophies around our current inability to answer all questions? Why not be patient and wait it out, since we've absolutely proven that we are, in fact, adding to our overall storehouse of knowledge each and every day, at an ever-increasing pace?
What we have indeed proven is that all the ancient biblical supernatural myths have far more logical explanations and origins. No Noahtic Fludd, no 6-Day Genesis event, no completely formed Universe, no YEC silliness, and so on. All just an ancient fear-based mythology written up by a few come-later opportunistic fear-mongering minstrels out to get a good hot meal free of charge!
And still they bring 'em in to the Big-Top tent by the bushel full, all panting frantically and hoping to be saved. God Bless Benny Hinn, huh?
Specifically, we'll very soon produce full-on life from "bathroom or kitchen chemicals", and then we'll get it to be able to auto-mutate just as RNA and DNA do, and then store that info into the biochemical memory system (the "logic" behind Evolution...), and then, stand back, boys and girls!
As in: No God required. Just logic via reproducible{!!!!! Yup: you can do them over if you don't like our conservative conclusions! Try it! You may well be surprised!} scientific studies, peer-reviewed and published!
Hawking has shown, in his most recent video, that obviously, ...
(BTW: this isn't an appeal to science - it's self-satisfied idolatry. I seriously doubt that either Hawkin or scientific consensus would speak with such naive certitude.)
Inexplicable and short-sighted logical fallacies highlighted in BLUE.
Hawking has shown, in his most recent video, that obviously, time comes to a standstill in the black hole. Thus, given that there was no prior time-frame, no existing chronology, no god could have existed. As well, as Stephen points out so eloquently (and has obviously been reading MY posts, which have asked this same question over and over ), the outstanding question about the so-called necessity for a managed and directed Genesis event, "WHY".
The answer to this is obvious: Christians require some outer theistic entity to guarantee their absolute need for an afterlife, to assuage their personally disabling fear of death. What is there to be "deathly" afraid of [], one asks?
Many (all?) Christians rely heavily and absolutely on this afterlife idea, and of not being caught without a recent all-encompassing sin-absolving confession, that they do it all the time, so as to not get caught with their spiritual pants down around their ankles.
They also present to us the true basis for their own near-paranoid delusional thoughts with the good old "Pascal's Wager" idiocy, the "Oh... but what if you're wrong?" fear-scape. Good on yah if it provides some sort of holy-righteous perspective!
Did you mean to say basically nothing that addresses anything I said? Were you just needing to ramble?
Word games and indirection.
I read this whole thread and all Rural Missionary offered were word games and indirection. You were summarily, as the kids like to say, "pwned".
Did you mean to say basically nothing that addresses anything I said? Were you just needing to ramble?
Rifleman's #121 addresses everything you said. You asserted that there has to be a First cause and assumed that First cause could only be God. Rifleman's excellent post showed that is not a valid assumption.
Who says everything has to have "meaning"? Some understand that just us being here is the meaning...others look at the universe and human existence as meaningless...Those who ask- "But what does it all mean"- who cares...it's a wonderful life and a blessing to be born...good or bad..the experience is better than no experience. God is not some fanciful thing like a Leprechan...even though some wish to equate the two. You just can not ignore the awe. Having been stuck in the city for a number of years I had forgotten about the stars...I grew up in a rural area where stars shone bright...I visited my brother in the country...I woke up in the middle of the night and went outside............I looked up for the first time in years....I was awe struck...in fact I felt a sense of fear....
The universe loomed above me....I had forgotten about it....It is truly all mighty and I understood the term again..."the fear of God" - it was not about fearing some entity that might harm me...it was about sheer awe. THAT moment reminded me...that there is a GOD...Modern people rarely see the stars and proof of grandeur and all mighty power.
And, if you could see far enough and long enough you would see the Andromeda galaxy hurling toward the Milky Way on a collision course to an eventually deadly, fiery explosion. You would see stars burning out, asteroids colliding into other asteroids and planets. You would see many different bodies being sucked into deadly black holes. Yes, its grandiose, but far from the perfection one would expect from a god who is in control.
Rifleman's #121 addresses everything you said. You asserted that there has to be a First cause and assumed that First cause could only be God. Rifleman's excellent post showed that is not a valid assumption.
I guess by his moniker, he is a preacher man, and unaccustomed, or incapable of listening, learning or enlightenment.
Preach the story line and declare he is right cause that's what the bible says, and of course the bible is right because the bible says so, thus trapped in the circle of ignorance.
The perpetual motion machine of willful ignorance, no thought input required. In fact it is forbidden, for thought will break the circle.
Last edited by Asheville Native; 09-20-2012 at 08:24 PM..
I guess by his moniker, he is a preacher man, and unaccustomed, or incapable of listening, learning or enlightenment.
Preach the story line and declare he is right cause that's what the bible says, and of course the bible is right because the bible says so, thus trapped in the circle of ignorance.
The perpetual motion machine of willful ignorance, no thought input required. In fact it is forbidden, for thought will break the circle.
No circular reasoning going on. But I'm still waiting for you to tell me how the universe began w/out a creator?
As I've tried to say....your default position is to point to a natural cause. I get that.
I never said that. Not once. Your constant need to assign positions to me I do not hold is rather telling. No my position is that we are in something we call the universe and we do not know how it got there. And we want to find out. So we are trying.
That is my position. I do not rule out ANY hypothesis at all and I realise that the god hypothesis is of course possible. But it is unsubstantiated.
^ That is my position. If you want to respond to any other position then you are responding to a strawman, and not to me.
No facts that our limited human minds can find to make it available to everyone. Still it does not prove anything.
That just sounds like someone with no substantiation for their position making up reasons as excuses for having no substantiation for your position.
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), the outstanding question about the so-called necessity for a managed and directed Genesis event, "WHY".
], one asks?
OMG!
