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Old 10-03-2012, 09:21 PM
 
Location: Tujunga
421 posts, read 447,447 times
Reputation: 143

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Quote:
Originally Posted by stock56 View Post
If science is correct that there is no God... My question to science---how was time created....

Will Science Someday Rule Out the Possibility of God? - Yahoo! News
I guess this will already have been said...but...

1. Science is a method of showing how well theories explain a certain type of problem, it isn't the answer to all possible questions

2. Neither I nor science knows how time was created, but that doesn't make 'God did it' any more plausible

3. Furthermore, 'God' did it seems like a parsimonious failure. Because you have two options:

A. The universe just existed/always existed (begs the question how it was made)
B. We assume that an all powerful creator exists (massive assumption) and made the universe, then have to ask the same question, ie how was God create.

So, to move from A to B we explain nothing whilst adding a massive assumption, a logic error if not a scientific one.
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Old 10-04-2012, 02:36 AM
 
Location: South Africa
5,563 posts, read 7,198,415 times
Reputation: 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattos_12 View Post
I guess this will already have been said...but...

1. Science is a method of showing how well theories explain a certain type of problem, it isn't the answer to all possible questions

2. Neither I nor science knows how time was created, but that doesn't make 'God did it' any more plausible

3. Furthermore, 'God' did it seems like a parsimonious failure. Because you have two options:

A. The universe just existed/always existed (begs the question how it was made)
B. We assume that an all powerful creator exists (massive assumption) and made the universe, then have to ask the same question, ie how was God create.

So, to move from A to B we explain nothing whilst adding a massive assumption, a logic error if not a scientific one.
Isn't it strange when one posits that the universe always existed (we know the BBT does have evidence to support it started somehow) that the same logic cannot be seen by theists. The universe is certainly far older than what the creation myths posit and the universe expanding has evidence. To date ZERO evidence for god(s) has been forthcoming.
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:12 PM
 
707 posts, read 685,185 times
Reputation: 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekerSA View Post
Isn't it strange when one posits that the universe always existed (we know the BBT does have evidence to support it started somehow) that the same logic cannot be seen by theists. The universe is certainly far older than what the creation myths posit and the universe expanding has evidence. To date ZERO evidence for god(s) has been forthcoming.
There is a break in logic. If the universe had a beginning than what happened before that? And if there was nothing how did something get here? So science says it had a beginning so how did it start? There is a physical disconnection associated with this premise. If there was ever a time when nothing existed than nothing would have ever come into existence. You can’t go from absolutely nothing to something, so there must have always been a something. This is another piece of evidence for God's existence from before time even began.
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Old 10-04-2012, 02:20 PM
 
Location: South Africa
5,563 posts, read 7,198,415 times
Reputation: 1798
The BBT does not deal in infinite regression. Your logic is flawed not science. There was no before time. I suggest you look up logical fallacies so that we do not have to correct you almost every post.
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Old 10-04-2012, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Front Range of Colorado
1,635 posts, read 2,511,261 times
Reputation: 662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vansdad View Post
There is a break in logic. If the universe had a beginning than what happened before that? And if there was nothing how did something get here? So science says it had a beginning so how did it start? There is a physical disconnection associated with this premise. If there was ever a time when nothing existed than nothing would have ever come into existence. You can’t go from absolutely nothing to something, so there must have always been a something. This is another piece of evidence for God's existence from before time even began.
No, your personal incredulity is NOT evidence for god. Just because science does not have all the ultimate answers does not make your god or any other god valid by default. You say "You can’t go from absolutely nothing to something", so using your own logic that takes care of your supernatural creation, doesn't it? It is amazing and amusing that theists have problems with things like the Big Bang, just because we don't have all the answers...YET, but have no problem at all with a magical creation.

Argument from Personal Incredulity is a very weak argument and does not move your god one mm closer to existence.
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Old 10-04-2012, 04:12 PM
 
16,294 posts, read 28,465,700 times
Reputation: 8383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vansdad View Post
There is a break in logic.
Ah yes, the childlike logic of "if something is unknown, then let's file it under goddunit" and look around for something else unknown to attribute to the god of the gaps.

Childlike logic can be charming...... in children
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Old 10-04-2012, 04:27 PM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,082 posts, read 20,571,542 times
Reputation: 5927
Actually, it's a nice question. While the Hadron collider and Higgs -boson can tell us what occurred at the Big Bang, it cannot tell us what was before the big bang. I find that question quite interesting and, in a vague way that I would not dream of describing as a scientific hypothesis, I can see a number of possibilities - none of which has the need for a 'god' of any kind.

In fact the idea of a pre- existent uncreated 'god' (except in the most abstract way, hardly deserving the label) the idea seams absurd to me, so I see no reason to be persuaded by the appeal to infinite regression as a logical demand for an a priori deity of some kind, let alone the specific one of the Bible.

I do expect really smart scientists of the kind Hawkins would undo the sandals of, if he could manage it, will someday start to come up with hypotheses about the pre- universe universe and even ways of testing it.
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Old 10-04-2012, 07:56 PM
 
707 posts, read 685,185 times
Reputation: 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
Ah yes, the childlike logic of "if something is unknown, then let's file it under goddunit" and look around for something else unknown to attribute to the god of the gaps.

Childlike logic can be charming...... in children
According to science the universe started with the Big Bang. So if there was nothing before that how could something come from nothing? So either a person goes with scientific faith because it does involve faith or the faith involving a Being above it all who put the laws of nature in place to form the universe.
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Old 10-04-2012, 08:11 PM
 
16,294 posts, read 28,465,700 times
Reputation: 8383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vansdad View Post
According to science the universe started with the Big Bang. So if there was nothing before that how could something come from nothing? So either a person goes with scientific faith because it does involve faith or the faith involving a Being above it all who put the laws of nature in place to form the universe.
No, it is just an unknown, that may be resolved, or may not for the lack of any evidence, and you automatically slip your imaginary friend in the unknown's, i.e. your god of the gaps, also with a lack of any evidence.

There is nothing wrong with saying "don't know" but to fill that don't know with "goddunit" is deceptive, and a lie, not to mention counter productive to the individual and society.
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Old 10-04-2012, 10:07 PM
 
707 posts, read 685,185 times
Reputation: 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
No, it is just an unknown, that may be resolved, or may not for the lack of any evidence, and you automatically slip your imaginary friend in the unknown's, i.e. your god of the gaps, also with a lack of any evidence.

There is nothing wrong with saying "don't know" but to fill that don't know with "goddunit" is deceptive, and a lie, not to mention counter productive to the individual and society.
none of us know that is true, but some of us have beliefs
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