Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The title used to be the name of a forum I posted on before C-D and I was thinking what stuff have you experienced out of the norm in churches.
We had a Scottish dude that came to our church and was apparently drunk in the spirit for over a year. This is drunk as in speech was slurred and incoherent. He was recovering alcoholic and somehow came across a way to get drunk w/o imbibing alcohol.
He had a bottle of water that he drank from and the more he drank the drunker he got and the more his speech became slurred. He was there to teach us how to get "wasted for god".
He did two services, morning and evening and the evening was where we were supposed to experiment and get drunk for the lord. Even as a believer I could not see the rationale behind this and what great revelation we were supposed to get, in fact I was a tad offended and I let the pastor know in no uncertain terms (remember he and I were golf partners).
Lo and behold we all brought our bottles of water and while many pretended to get drunk in the spirit, I was unaffected as usual. Even back then, my stance was pretty rigid that god should be able to appeal and communicate directly to be when I was fully cognisant after all he was god not a man.
The scientific rationale behind this is that perhaps some folk are able to find the key to releasing endorphins in their brain and the water is merely a placebo prop to facilitate that.
After the evening service was done, the dude approached me. I had shared the aspect of religion being derived from relegare and that it means to bind up and contrary to what we should be doing is seeking freedom from shackles/bondage. Complimentary or contradictory, it did not matter. This "great man of god" did not even know this and he jotted down what I said for later research. I was pretty amazed he was unaware but as time progressed I realised just how little these folk actually knew. Obviously their bible study was routine and not like I was scouring every single resource I could lay my hand on.
The first time I heard of this term was in fact listening to an Evangelist's VHS tapes (remember those?) and he also went into detail in his one book. Looking back, this evangelist who was key in my conversion also provided me with the seeds that would lead to more research and study and enable me to really free myself from religion entirely as time progressed.
Of course at the time we had all bought into "its a relationship and not a religion" despite everything we were doing was in fact religious practices, coming together, singing choruses, a sermon, testimonies, praying for each other; IOW stuff deemed to be "good works". We really were a bunch of self righteous pricks even though at the time we had this obviously distorted view of ourselves.
The only other weird experience was "righteous laughter" where we spent an entire service simply laughing at nothing in particular but at each other.
IMO, these are the measures folk goto to find anything that seems like "tangible proof of god". We practised all there was in hope of miracles from the laying on of hands but none of it really worked. We did not discuss the "absence of evidence" and like good lil' theists, we gave god "some extra time" to do his thing while no one was watching. The best evidence we saw was folk falling over or collapsing and babbling in tongues which hardly constitutes anything tangible.
In any other sphere of life, claims are expected to be supported by corroborating evidence except when it comes to godly matters.
A simple example is that employers expect a doctor's note if you call in sick and are off for more than a day. Even if your supervisor makes a visit and sees you in bed, the note remains a requirement. Pretty rigid - no?
Pastors doing hospital visits are more prone to disease and not uncommon to see them donning a dust mask to "help god not make them sick" and keep them from inhaling little demons we all call microbes and germs. Maybe too pragmatic - no?
The title used to be the name of a forum I posted on before C-D and I was thinking what stuff have you experienced out of the norm in churches.
We had a Scottish dude that came to our church and was apparently drunk in the spirit for over a year. This is drunk as in speech was slurred and incoherent. He was recovering alcoholic and somehow came across a way to get drunk w/o imbibing alcohol.
He had a bottle of water that he drank from and the more he drank the drunker he got and the more his speech became slurred. He was there to teach us how to get "wasted for god".
He did two services, morning and evening and the evening was where we were supposed to experiment and get drunk for the lord. Even as a believer I could not see the rationale behind this and what great revelation we were supposed to get, in fact I was a tad offended and I let the pastor know in no uncertain terms (remember he and I were golf partners).
Lo and behold we all brought our bottles of water and while many pretended to get drunk in the spirit, I was unaffected as usual. Even back then, my stance was pretty rigid that god should be able to appeal and communicate directly to be when I was fully cognisant after all he was god not a man.
The scientific rationale behind this is that perhaps some folk are able to find the key to releasing endorphins in their brain and the water is merely a placebo prop to facilitate that.
After the evening service was done, the dude approached me. I had shared the aspect of religion being derived from relegare and that it means to bind up and contrary to what we should be doing is seeking freedom from shackles/bondage. Complimentary or contradictory, it did not matter. This "great man of god" did not even know this and he jotted down what I said for later research. I was pretty amazed he was unaware but as time progressed I realised just how little these folk actually knew. Obviously their bible study was routine and not like I was scouring every single resource I could lay my hand on.
The first time I heard of this term was in fact listening to an Evangelist's VHS tapes (remember those?) and he also went into detail in his one book. Looking back, this evangelist who was key in my conversion also provided me with the seeds that would lead to more research and study and enable me to really free myself from religion entirely as time progressed.
Of course at the time we had all bought into "its a relationship and not a religion" despite everything we were doing was in fact religious practices, coming together, singing choruses, a sermon, testimonies, praying for each other; IOW stuff deemed to be "good works". We really were a bunch of self righteous pricks even though at the time we had this obviously distorted view of ourselves.
The only other weird experience was "righteous laughter" where we spent an entire service simply laughing at nothing in particular but at each other.
IMO, these are the measures folk goto to find anything that seems like "tangible proof of god". We practised all there was in hope of miracles from the laying on of hands but none of it really worked. We did not discuss the "absence of evidence" and like good lil' theists, we gave god "some extra time" to do his thing while no one was watching. The best evidence we saw was folk falling over or collapsing and babbling in tongues which hardly constitutes anything tangible.
In any other sphere of life, claims are expected to be supported by corroborating evidence except when it comes to godly matters.
A simple example is that employers expect a doctor's note if you call in sick and are off for more than a day. Even if your supervisor makes a visit and sees you in bed, the note remains a requirement. Pretty rigid - no?
Pastors doing hospital visits are more prone to disease and not uncommon to see them donning a dust mask to "help god not make them sick" and keep them from inhaling little demons we all call microbes and germs. Maybe too pragmatic - no?
Anyway over to you and your weird experiences.
This is a huge problem within Charismatic circles of Christianity today. I recently heard an interview with Mike Bickle of The International House of Prayer (IHOP) in Kansas City, MO. He flat out admitted that at least 80% of the things they attribute to the Holy Spirit is not real.
Please realize that many of us do NOT consider nonsense like that to be mainstream. The examples you listed directly contradict the commands in scripture regarding how to conduct worship.
This is a huge problem within Charismatic circles of Christianity today. I recently heard an interview with Mike Bickle of The International House of Prayer (IHOP) in Kansas City, MO. He flat out admitted that at least 80% of the things they attribute to the Holy Spirit is not real.
Please realize that many of us do NOT consider nonsense like that to be mainstream. The examples you listed directly contradict the commands in scripture regarding how to conduct worship.
In your subjective opinion.
There is in fact ZERO biblical teaching wrt how a service should go. They all make it up based on mostly tradition or derivatives of that.
I have said it before that I have sampled most of the denominations on offer here in Africa so I have seen it all (figuratively speaking).
Why not start a thread of how you think services should be conducted and let other theists chime in?
There is in fact ZERO biblical teaching wrt how a service should go. They all make it up based on mostly tradition or deviants of that.
1 Cor 11 gives quite a bit of guidelines on how to partake of the Lord's Supper.
1 Cor 14:26-34 also has a lot to say about how to conduct a worship service -- specifically in the context of Spiritual Gifts.
"26 What then, brothers? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for building up. 27 If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret. 28 But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God. 29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said. 30 If a revelation is made to another sitting there, let the first be silent. 31 For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be encouraged, 32 and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets. 33 For God is not a God of confusion but of peace.
As in all the churches of the saints, 34 the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. "
Quote:
I have said it before that I have sampled most of the denominations on offer here in Africa so I have seen it all (figuratively speaking).
Why not start a thread of how you think services should be conducted and let other theists chime in?
I'm going to respond here. If you'd like to start a thread, knock yourself out, but I thought this relevant to the OP. God allows a lot of flexibility in HOW we want to do a service. He just has guidelines on what we do during it.
1 Cor 11 gives quite a bit of guidelines on how to partake of the Lord's Supper.
1 Cor 14:26-34 also has a lot to say about how to conduct a worship service -- specifically in the context of Spiritual Gifts.
"26 What then, brothers? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for building up. 27 If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret. 28 But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God. 29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said. 30 If a revelation is made to another sitting there, let the first be silent. 31 For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be encouraged, 32 and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets. 33 For God is not a God of confusion but of peace.
As in all the churches of the saints, 34 the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. "
I'm going to respond here. If you'd like to start a thread, knock yourself out, but I thought this relevant to the OP. God allows a lot of flexibility in HOW we want to do a service. He just has guidelines on what we do during it.
No you are not going to hijack this thread.
Of course he does as he is only imaginary. A real god would have clear edicts not some willy nilly texts that can be interpreted in multiple ways.
I am not going to respond to your strawmen anymore. The topic of this thread is pretty clear and concise.
Of course he does as he is only imaginary. A real god would have clear edicts not some willy nilly texts that can be interpreted in multiple ways.
I am not going to respond to your strawmen anymore. The topic of this thread is pretty clear and concise.
Whatever. I don't care. You made an ignorant statement, and I provided documentation to prove you wrong. Now you accuse me of trying to hijack your thread. Go ahead. Stick your head in the sand and slap yourself on the back and tell yourself it's all as you say...that big mean Vizio won't bother you anymore with the facts.
Seeker, I can relate to your experiences. I was not charismatic but my first wife was drawn to some soft-core charismatic experiences and once dragged me to a Frances and Charles Hunter crusade. They were calling people up for a "touch from god" and everyone was being "slain in the spirit" which basically means they had "catchers" standing behind each person in line around the altar and as one of the "happy Hunters" touched each person's forehead they would drop into the arms of their "catcher". I decided that if this was real god could show me, though I was dubious. I went into the line and when Frances got to me nothing happened, of course. She pushed harder, nearly shoving me off balance, but I held my ground. She shrugged and moved on. Not enough faith, was doubtless her judgment. In reality, not enough willingness to put my brain in neutral to be swept along with the crowd psychology.
Naturally the entire service up to that point was designed to work everyone into an emotional froth of expectation.
Ironically I don't know that non-charismatic churches are really any different -- just more dignified and less bizarre to mainstream society. We still used music to set moods, etc. I was fortunate enough to command the resources of a pretty substantial digital theater pipe organ replica with weeping Tibias and Voxes and soft undulating strings and meditative wood harps, etc., and before that, a more ordinary piano. Believe me, I could raise the hair on the backs of people's necks and sometimes move them to quiet tears. Of course I wasn't "in" on some plot, from my point of view I was just doing what musicians do in church services, according to a well established pattern. And probably not that imaginatively. But now of course in retrospect, I realize that with the indwelling holy spirit and all being a fiction, why I was needed to "stir" people into some particular emotional state.
My grandmother used to talk about about going to visit a church where they handled snakes. This was in the 30's in some place deep in Appalachia. She had plenty of faith in God but, as a country girl who was taught to not mess with anything poisonous, she thought they were all completely nuts.
My grandmother used to talk about about going to visit a church where they handled snakes. This was in the 30's in some place deep in Appalachia. She had plenty of faith in God but, as a country girl who was taught to not mess with anything poisonous, she thought they were all completely nuts.
She sat in the back, BTW.
Did you know that snake handling in church is still legal in West Virginia?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
