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Old 11-30-2012, 06:56 PM
 
Location: Central Florida
1,329 posts, read 676,994 times
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Morality based on revelation is just not good enough. Sure, a theist can claim that God is a lawgiver, but how does the theist know God's laws are just? If a voice comes to you in the night and says "Hey, I'm God... go kill your firstborn child", do you think that would be sufficient grounds to sanction what most people would see as murder?

Revelation doesn't simplify morality at all. In fact its an unnecesary complication. Things are moral wheather or not God wills them to be so.
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Old 11-30-2012, 06:59 PM
 
19,943 posts, read 14,556,024 times
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Originally Posted by DT113876 View Post
Morality based on revelation is just not good enough. Sure, a theist can claim that God is a lawgiver, but how does the theist know God's laws are just? If a voice comes to you in the night and says "Hey, I'm God... go kill your firstborn child", do you think that would be sufficient grounds to sanction what most people would see as murder?

Revelation doesn't simplify morality at all. In fact its an unnecesary complication. Things are moral wheather or not God wills them to be so.
What makes something moral or immoral, if not God?
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Old 11-30-2012, 07:11 PM
 
Location: Central Florida
1,329 posts, read 676,994 times
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Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
What makes something moral or immoral, if not God?
Alot of other religious and philosophical traditions define as wrong actions that harm other beings, or actions that are contrary to truth. I don't see why that's hard to grasp.

The Buddha had this to say how we can know what is bad:

"... when you yourselves know: 'These things are bad; these things are blamable; these things are censured by the wise; undertaken and observed, these things lead to harm and ill,' abandon them."

The Buddha did not believe we needed any ultimate authority except our own intuition in these matters. I agree. We all know, in a general sense, what is good and bad without a great deal of instruction.
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Old 11-30-2012, 08:18 PM
 
Location: Central Indiana
167 posts, read 151,820 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DT113876 View Post
Morality based on revelation is just not good enough. Sure, a theist can claim that God is a lawgiver, but how does the theist know God's laws are just? If a voice comes to you in the night and says "Hey, I'm God... go kill your firstborn child", do you think that would be sufficient grounds to sanction what most people would see as murder?

Revelation doesn't simplify morality at all. In fact its an unnecesary complication. Things are moral wheather or not God wills them to be so.
Morality is subjective. The morality of the Israelite and the Christian and the Native American and the sleek science of atomic warfare is all an unnecessary complication.

What you want is your morality, but that isn't anything new.
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Old 11-30-2012, 09:41 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
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Imagine you are in hell... there is no presence of God around you. Do you suddenly think it is O.K. that you are being tortured? Do you suddenly stop enjoying being respected?
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Old 11-30-2012, 09:43 PM
 
19,943 posts, read 14,556,024 times
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Originally Posted by DT113876 View Post
Alot of other religious and philosophical traditions define as wrong actions that harm other beings, or actions that are contrary to truth. I don't see why that's hard to grasp.

The Buddha had this to say how we can know what is bad:

"... when you yourselves know: 'These things are bad; these things are blamable; these things are censured by the wise; undertaken and observed, these things lead to harm and ill,' abandon them."

The Buddha did not believe we needed any ultimate authority except our own intuition in these matters. I agree. We all know, in a general sense, what is good and bad without a great deal of instruction.
So it's up to the individual? What if I think it's ok to rape, kill and steal? Who are you to tell me it's wrong?
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Old 12-01-2012, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Portsmouth, VA
75 posts, read 79,121 times
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Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
What makes something moral or immoral, if not God?
In his essay The Pragmatics of Patriotism, Robert Heinlein offered a scientific approach for moral determinations. In it, he states that moral behavior is behavior which tends toward survival, and discusses it briefly.

Western Rifle Shooters Association: The Pragmatics of Patriotism
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Old 12-01-2012, 03:12 PM
 
Location: Front Range of Colorado
1,635 posts, read 2,289,164 times
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Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
So it's up to the individual? What if I think it's ok to rape, kill and steal? Who are you to tell me it's wrong?
Doesn't your Bible instruct you clearly to obey man's laws?
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Old 12-02-2012, 07:23 PM
 
Location: Central Florida
1,329 posts, read 676,994 times
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Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
So it's up to the individual? What if I think it's ok to rape, kill and steal? Who are you to tell me it's wrong?
Experience tells me rape and killing and stealing are all bad. I don't need a holy book or god telling me that.

Really, I am sort of sympathetic as of late to thoughtful Christians. But this sort of argumentation is rather poor.
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Old 12-02-2012, 07:53 PM
 
19,943 posts, read 14,556,024 times
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Originally Posted by theprask View Post
In his essay The Pragmatics of Patriotism, Robert Heinlein offered a scientific approach for moral determinations. In it, he states that moral behavior is behavior which tends toward survival, and discusses it briefly.

Western Rifle Shooters Association: The Pragmatics of Patriotism
What makes that right?
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