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People seem to think the Earth is created for our pleasure. Far from it, it is a testing ground that pushes each of us to our limits. Our purpose here is not to live a comfy life of pleasure. We have work to do and only one lifetime to do it in. We face the challenges of a physical existence, life is a perfect test as it places us all in equal ability to pass or fail it. In my concept the theistic posture of the tragedy is it is the result of living here on earth and being subject to all aspects of a physical world.
This is the least objectionable theist position on the matter ... but I still have a problem with it. Yes, there are bad people who do bad things. But the fact remains that an allegedly omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent god permitted 20 innocent children to be blown to smitherenes at close range with what's basically an M-16 assault rifle. I just saw one of the parents say that the shooter had god-given free agency and god couldn't take that away from him. Well, I beg to differ. God as described by Christianity most certainly can do whatever he wants to.
God is not the author of evil. He knew it would happen, but he did allow it to happen. Why? I have no idea. Nobody does. Who knows. But while we are thinking of this.....why does God allow good things to happen to bad people? We generally don't see huge outcries when a bad person wins $300 million in the lottery.
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Believers always say that god can't interfere with free will lest we all become "robots". Yet we interfere with each other's free will all the time in the form of everything from taxation to prohibiting murder and no one objects to this on the basis that it turns us into "robots". At the very least it's a matter of balance ... surely if anyone reading this had god's knowledge, power and love, this is at least one place where that person would have intervened. Theists would not excuse anyone who had the power to act to stop the shooter and failed to do so, in fact, they'd rightly call them cowardly and/or uncaring. They should not excuse their god, either.
I think it's a question of point of view. I think God has a reason that he allows it. We can sit here at ground level and condemn God for not stopping it....but if we knew what he knows, would we?
People seem to think the Earth is created for our pleasure. Far from it, it is a testing ground that pushes each of us to our limits. Our purpose here is not to live a comfy life of pleasure. We have work to do and only one lifetime to do it in. We face the challenges of a physical existence, life is a perfect test as it places us all in equal ability to pass or fail it. In my concept the theistic posture of the tragedy is it is the result of living here on earth and being subject to all aspects of a physical world.
I certainly do not think anything was created for our pleasure. We are an accident of nature and evolution. Really, there is little to get excited about as we are all slaves to the system we find ourselves in. Nothing much has changed basically other than mass info and communication making the world a whole lot smaller and accessible.
Stuff like this tragedy happens all the time, a school bus goes off a bridge, a plane blows up shortly after take off, these have cause and effect and offer explanations. This latest incident, I am sure we will discover in time what went wrong too. None of the explanations undo what transpired, they may just help to get closure for folk affected. From what I read so far, he was not a nutter, perhaps a nerd that was bullied, and was as far as we know above average intelligence. In reality, imaginary god(s) had as much to do with this tragedy as Harry Potter did.
Perhaps the move on our govt to disarm the populace has prevented similar tragedies here, at least we are not that armed as the US populace. Statistically, the more weapons the public have, the more gun deaths there will be. This correlation is not rocket science.
As long as man has been making war, innocent children have been victims.
Nice cowardly of quoting me while responding to another poster.
Yes I am pretty mean to the stupid way non affected theists try and sweep this under the carpet of inconvenience. In happier times we are all TOLD that this god is benevolent, kind, loving and and a whole heap of other BS untruths. When you theists cannot face the fact that your god is imaginary and USE this tragedy to defend your imaginary god, we atheists who would simply offer simple condolences and say "there are simply no words..." you lot sweet talk and say they are now in a better place, they have the greatest xmas gift as they are now with jesus, are little angels in heaven; ALL of these platitudes do zip for the parents of the victims and are anyway blatant lies.
Face it, when tragedy strikes children like this, theists really have zero defence.
I am pretty sure soon we will see some twit proclaim this as a judgement of god because of (insert silly lame excuse or recent political outcome like gay marriage et al here) Hell even Glen Beck suggested that the parents were godless and is the result of a judgement.
If you theists simply admitted that you have no idea why this happens instead of trying to defend an imaginary god, no one would take umbrage OR attack your beliefs.
At the end of the day, just like silly politicians, it is best to keep you folk talking about your imaginary god, none of us can do the same disservice to your religion than you do yourselves.
Using your oft ad populum stats you love throwing in our faces, THERE IS AN ±80% CHANCE THIS GUY AND HIS MOTHER WERE BELIEVERS. But of course, you guys have the convenient fall guy to blame this on, you know the devil.
ETA link to pic of example of FB post of what I mentioned:
What is "cowardly" is the way Atheists will be all renegade on some internet forum...but I bet they wouldn't have the guts to talk and write like they do, with full exposure of their identity, in a place in the world where they would have to put it on the line for their position.
Look, I don't believe in a personal God that acts or intervenes in peoples lives, some Satanic entity that disseminates evil, or any of those concepts...and I've certainly copped to lacking couth and being not so "classy" a guy...but I would NEVER be so mean, and cruel, and rude, so as to slam the beliefs of bereaved people that just had about the most unimaginably horrible of things happen to them, and are gathering in churches, assuming a "Theological posture", and praying & singing hymns together, and tapping into their religious faith as a way to try to find some solace and emotional comfort in the face of such grief and sorrow.
If you can't see how messed up it is that you and others are doing that...I have to conclude you are "beyond reach", and just don't have a clue.
So, make sure you get on the POTUS, and Connecticut Governor Malloy, and all the rest of the MILLIONS of people for their "stupid way" of "sweet talking" to comfort the families of the victims and those emotionally tormented by this.
But it doesn't matter...cuz in my standard ad Pop style---For every person that would see this as a sick and twisted opportunity to spew cruel, mean, Anti-Theism sentiments...there will be a hundred thousand that will offer the opposite...and thus relegate the cruel Atheist spew to nothing more than the mean ranting of the few that lack the decorum to be decent, polite, and understanding to people who are emotionally suffering to the extreme.
What is "cowardly" is the way Atheists will be all renegade on some internet forum...but I bet they wouldn't have the guts to talk and write like they do, with full exposure of their identity, in a place in the world where they would have to put it on the line for their position.
Read my profile, there is a real pic of me and I would tell you lot to your face in RL the exact same thing. Moderator cut: Inappropriate language.
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Look, I don't believe in a personal God that acts or intervenes in peoples lives, some Satanic entity that disseminates evil, or any of those concepts...and I've certainly copped to lacking couth and being not so "classy" a guy...but I would NEVER be so mean, and cruel, and rude, so as to slam the beliefs of bereaved people that just had about the most unimaginably horrible of things happen to them, and are gathering in churches, assuming a "Theological posture", and praying & singing hymns together, and tapping into their religious faith as a way to try to find some solace and emotional comfort in the face of such grief and sorrow.
I never attacked any of these folk. They are NOT on the interwebs apologising for a non existent god.
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If you can't see how messed up it is that you and others are doing that...I have to conclude you are "beyond reach", and just don't have a clue.
I think you are the one with the problem. I write pretty soundly and pull no punches as to what I am trying to get over.
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So, make sure you get on the POTUS, and Connecticut Governor Malloy, and all the rest of the MILLIONS of people for their "stupid way" of "sweet talking" to comfort the families of the victims and those emotionally tormented by this.
Don't have to, my response is against the internet trolls using this tragedy for whatever political or religious purpose they may seem to deem fit for consumption. Many of the religious posters here are inundating the P&C forum with their drivel.
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But it doesn't matter...cuz in my standard ad Pop style---For every person that would see this as a sick and twisted opportunity to spew cruel, mean, Anti-Theism sentiments...there will be a hundred thousand that will offer the opposite...and thus relegate the cruel Atheist spew to nothing more than the mean ranting of the few that lack the decorum to be decent, polite, and understanding to people who are emotionally suffering to the extreme.
The victims were never the target of my disdain, it is the lame ass apologists making crap up like this happened because "prayer/god was removed from schools..." and the like. These same theists have forgotten the many church shootings not too long ago, supposed to be "god's house(s)".
Next time aim your vitriol a tad lower, your intended audience move at a lower altitude to real people and real compassion and atheists who would NOT use this as a form of apologetic and simply offer simple condolences w/o added fluff like I did.
on the same exact day 22 children in china and a teacher at a grade school were slashed. few weeks a go 2 children were knifed to death by a nanny in NYC ..... so many innocent children are being killed and that is the short list.
I lost all interest in religion and prayers etc. If there was a GOD where was he on 911 on friday and on other days when such horrifying crimes aka holocosts take place. the innocent and young are dropping like flies.
God is not the author of evil. He knew it would happen, but he did allow it to happen. Why? I have no idea. Nobody does. Who knows. But while we are thinking of this.....why does God allow good things to happen to bad people? We generally don't see huge outcries when a bad person wins $300 million in the lottery.
I think it's a question of point of view. I think God has a reason that he allows it. We can sit here at ground level and condemn God for not stopping it....but if we knew what he knows, would we?
Everyone and everything is subject to the laws of decency, compassion, and fairness. For example, one doesn't need to be a god to recognize that genocide is an abhorrent act. Supposedly your god passes judgement on those of us for doing much less, not giving to the poor, not helping our fellow man, not loving one another. Certainly if your god allowed this to happened, we have the obligation to try to find out why and he has the obligation to tell us. Otherwise, we can only conclude that he does not exist, which is the most likely scenario.
God is not the author of evil. He knew it would happen, but he did allow it to happen. Why? I have no idea. Nobody does. Who knows. But while we are thinking of this.....why does God allow good things to happen to bad people? We generally don't see huge outcries when a bad person wins $300 million in the lottery.
I think it's a question of point of view. I think God has a reason that he allows it. We can sit here at ground level and condemn God for not stopping it....but if we knew what he knows, would we?
My rational and spiritual heart and soul have no place for a cruel and vicious God who regularly runs his uncaring head and acts of pure violence on the plights of children. The "Oh, he has called them to His side, PRAISE JESUS!" nonsense is but a frail and unacceptable but blatantly obvious Selective Belief of Convenience, and reeks of a truly intransigent and blind-faith approach to life.
Bad, random things have, can and will continue to happen on this planet. The reason? Population overcrowding, limited proper detection or care for the mentally troubled, and a vastly over-consumerist culture. Add in inappropriate social interaction, genetic deficiencies with some individuals, of course very poor parenting, with no or minimal consequences (and no, this does not include bible-thumping sessions nor rod-sparing by narrow-minded über-Christians..).
Add in a lack of partental guidance in the types and amounts of violent media our otherwise naive and innocent children are allowed, yes ALLOWED... to watch or pursue as FPS video games. ("Yes, you can play Halo but only if you come to Sunday School and learn your morals lessons!")
The Giant Overseeing Video Screen is now now so fully ensconced in the easily influenced mind: it's the primary driver for generating "acceptable losses & blood spurting onto the 3-D or wide/flat/big HDTV screen", and of positing the idea that we can or should kill things that get in the way of our egos.
Now, yesterday afternoon, we had a case of a shooter in a SoCal Mall, letting off 50 rounds. Or, how about the Chinese guy 2 days ago who stabbed at some 12 or so children with a knife. In an elementary school?
All of God's allowance and design? Conclusion, easily proven:
You fundy Christians are a very psycho lot. You need to rationally and maturely accept that there is no all-controlling God, one who never visits to waggle his finger with some warning to those who hold evil thoughts (which ,btw, means he'd have NOTHING to SAY to all of us regular atheists...), based on this sort of event alone, not to mention when literally millions die globally each year due entirely to natural planetary forces that Christians then try to give grace to their vengeful and oblivious god for.
Because, predictably, when something decidedly good happens, you proudly step in and tell us that He's the Grande Vizard.
What nonsense. What pathologically inept thinking.
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Silly Selective Beliefs bubble up again...
