Noahs engineering skills (myths, divine, children, teaching)

[Wild Colonial Girl]

Originally Posted by Eusebius

It is possible that, since there is 2 atoms of hydrogen per cubic centimeter out in space above the earth in the universe, it is possible that prior to the flood there was a huge amount of hydrogen trapped in orbit just above the earth. Then something pulled these hydrogen atoms into the atmosphere, mixed with oxygen and it looked like the windows of heaven had opened and these huge amounts of water came in streams down upon the earth.

No, I think you'll find it specifically says there is a vault and floodgates. You can't go messing with the words the bible uses. Every single words King James chose he chose becase god's divine will was upon him. If he'd been doing chemistry up there it would say "12 and lo there was an abundance of hydrogen in all Lagrange points, and there too was oxygen in the upper atmosphere 13 and the LORD your god did speak unto the atoms and did combine them in a ratio of 2:1 and the LORD did cause the water thus created to fall upon the earth 14 and there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth"

Whereas it says

And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
(Genesis 1:6-8 KJV)

11 ¶ In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. 2 Pet. 3.6

[Amaznjohn]

Yeah, we git it. It was MAGIC!!!

[Eusebius]

Originally Posted by Wild Colonial Girl

No, I think you'll find it specifically says there is a vault and floodgates. You can't go messing with the words the bible uses. Every single words King James chose he chose becase god's divine will was upon him. If he'd been doing chemistry up there it would say "12 and lo there was an abundance of hydrogen in all Lagrange points, and there too was oxygen in the upper atmosphere 13 and the LORD your god did speak unto the atoms and did combine them in a ratio of 2:1 and the LORD did cause the water thus created to fall upon the earth 14 and there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth"

Whereas it says

Ever hear of figurative language?

Israel was in a furnace for over 400 years when held captive in Egypt too. And God refined the dross out of them in the fires.

Was Egypt turned into a literal furnace? Did that furnace really have fire in it? Did God literally take dross out of the Israelites just as a goldsmith takes the dross out of gold?

Does a literal sword come out of Jesus' mouth in Revelation? Does He literallly morph into a lamb?

[Eusebius]

Originally Posted by littlewitness

Well now, how magnanimous of you to allow consideration of the truth of G-d's word about a global flood. First, the destination of all that water was...ahem...earth. The source of all that water was...ahem...earth...surrounding it, and underneath it and the rest gathered together into a single location..."seas." Secundo, formation of metamorphic rock produces water. Third, the radioisotope "age" for the Appalachian mountains of several million years, calculated on the assumption that radioactive decay has always occurred at today's rates, is a gross error. At any rate, G-d said "...the mountains were covered." Genesis 7:20 KJV, and is evidence sufficient to prove apart from your erroneous assumption about the age of the Appalachian mountains that there were mountains on the earth in Noah's day. "Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered." Genesis 7:20 KJV. Based on the plain text, the waters prevailed over the highest mountains by about 30 feet. Again, the voluminous amount of water required to sustain your belief in what G-d said was already here.

There is the Mariana Trenchn that is 36,069 ± 131 ft deep that if Mt. Everest were placed in it would cover it by over a mile.

[rifleman]

Originally Posted by Eusebius

Ever hear of figurative language?

Israel was in a furnace for over 400 years when held captive in Egypt too. And God refined the dross out of them in the fires.

Was Egypt turned into a literal furnace? Did that furnace really have fire in it? Did God literally take dross out of the Israelites just as a goldsmith takes the dross out of gold?

Does a literal sword come out of Jesus' mouth in Revelation? Does He literallly morph into a lamb?

So... now you are claiming that your bible is NOT to be taken literally, yet you cling desperately & literally to the absurd Noah's Ark fable? Hmmmm... Have you sought psychiatric guidance, Big - E? I'm only thinking of your mental health my friend!

Originally Posted by Eusebius

There is the Mariana Trenchn that is 36,069 ± 131 ft deep that if Mt. Everest were placed in it would cover it by over a mile.

Rubbish thinking. You take a one-off figure referencing some 2-dimensional depth measurement of a specific oceanic trench and then you apply it, with nary a logical thought or explanation, to the specific height of Mt. Everest. You of course just ignore that if GOD takes that water from the Marianas Trench, why then, that action would leave a hole. And the surrounding ocean would... uhmmm... rush in to fill God's little trickery. Or would you deny that reaction?

So again... what then rushes in to fill that huge vacancy? Or does God leave it as a sort of intellectual-oceanic Black Hole, as is so very common with fundies who are Selectively Evasive in their inventive but unsupported ideas.

No wonder the church has you folks by the cranial short and curlies! You have literaly no critical thinking skills, but you are also proud of it!

The church says it, and you buy it full-tilt and without question.

Example: as for making massive volumes of contained water out in space, that IS an all-new one! But why not this: God spins an asteroid, fully made of ice, off it's intended trajetory. Then, he lowers it gently into our atmosphere at just the right (golden parachute moderated...) rate to gently melt in just the right amount of water?

But uhmmmmm where did He then hide all of it later when it had to go?

Dang! DANG! Details. (I know: He madeth the winds to blow and evap it all back up into ... into... space? Ignoring gravity for a moment... as you guys regularly, playin' loose and false with any facts...

But such an outrageous evap rate would then create fog, storms, well-over 100% humidity and resulting endless condensing rainfall, which OMG, falls back to earth.

What to do... what to do!

I know: examine us for free for 30 days... on us! We'll give you a full psychological refund if you are not completely satisfied with the obvious evidence and physics of the situation. Then look out to see in it fits the observable world around us. I mean, objectively of course...

You might well be surprised, but then, you really can't handle the truth, can you Eusebius?

Here! Grade 6 math! Can you keep up with it?

The total volume of water on Earth is about 1.4 billion cubic kilometers Space and NASA News, USGS.gov

Volume of a sphere = 4/3 r3 where r=radius

Radius of Earth = 6,378.15 Kilometers

Height of Mt. Everest = 8.85 Kilometers

The volume of water needed to cover Earth to the height of Mt. Everest is approximately the difference in volume of a sphere needed to encompass Mt. Everest and the volume of a sphere the size of the Earth.

Volume of a sphere encompassing the Earth at sea level
= 4/3 (6,378.15 KM)3 = 1,086,825,918,019 KM3

Volume of a sphere encompassing Mt. Everest
= 4/3 (6,378.15 + 8.85 KM)3 = 1,091,388,460,971 KM3

The Difference = 4,530,488,766 KM3

Notice that this is more than 3 TIMES the amount of water presently on Earth.

Oh well. Hydrologic Banality unveiled.

What next? Elves carrying buckets of water from The Golden Ship?

[rifleman]

Quick addition: I just came upon this well-done site. Suggestion: Read it or die ignorant, oh thou fundanistás!

The list of topics available is very interesting but don't ignore some of the mind-blowing commentaries from supposedly intelligent Christians, which blow the cogent and rational mind.

I particularly liked the solidified & fossilized comment from one fundy that any and all fossilized (as in long-ago turned to hard stone by mineralization) sea shells we find up on high mountains like Everest should have long ago eroded away. At what erosion rate, pray tell? After all, we have only 2500 yrs post Noahatic Fludd, right?

so... say... A quarter-inch of total erosion per hour? More? Less? Can you imagine the dust storms?

if such mindless commentary weren't so vacuously & incredibly facile, it'd be truly funny.

Noah's Flood - What does the Evidence Say?

[Zebra321]

Originally Posted by Lucidkitty

Where do you think he learned how to fashion such a sea worthy vessel at?

He didn't. The Biblical account of Noah's Ark ought not be taken literally; it is fundamentally implausible for various reasons, not the least of which being that most of the animals that would've had to be put on his Ark live nowhere near the Middle East (not now and not then).

Of course common sense and facts rarely matter to hard core believers.

Are you from Kentucky? I hear they're building a so-called replica of it there; sounds like it'd be right up your alley...

[jtur88]

Originally Posted by Eusebius

The entire planet was inundated by water according to Genesis 1.

They did not know that the world was a planet (wandering star), and in their infinite wisdom that affirms the authority to all that they wrote, they knew the world was flat.

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by littlewitness

Resorting to constant ridicule of the truth of G-d's written word is a fools game.

No, the Fool's Game is claiming that Jesus is God and then saying "G-d" instead of Jesus.

Shouldn't it be J-s-s?

Or is Jesus not worthy of the same respect as "G-d?"

2 Kings 2:23 He [Elisha] went up from there to Bethel. As he was traveling up the road, some young boys came out of the city and made fun of him, saying, “Go on up, baldy! Go on up, baldy!” 2:24 When he turned around and saw them, he called upon Jesus to bring judgment down on them. Jesus sent two female bears came out of the woods and ripped forty-two of the boys to pieces.

Swell guy, that Jesus.

Gaming...

Mircea

Originally Posted by TimeMachine

Vizio, do you have a problem with the Cambrian explosion? I only ask becasuse if you do, I can't see you accepting such massive evolutiong after the ark.

Originally Posted by Vizio

How does that compare to the Cambrian explosion? For some unknown reason, evolutionists think there were all kinds of new species in a relative blink of an eye.

Originally Posted by Vizio

I fully agree with the idea that evolution is a load of bunk. Having said that, the strawman you posted earlier is a far cry from saying that evolution is not correct.

Also, according to Genesis 7:23 Only Noah and those who were with him in the ark survived...so that means Noah and his sons had...

Achondroplasia
Achromatopsia
Acid Maltase Deficiency
Adrenoleukodystrophy
Aicardi Syndrome
Alpha-1 Antitrypsin Deficiency
Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome
Apert Syndrome
Arrhythmogenic Right Ventricular Dysplasia
Ataxia Telangiectasia
Barth Syndrome
Blue Rubber Bleb Nevus Syndrome
Canavan Disease
Cri Du Chat Syndrome
Cystic Fibrosis
Dercum's Disease
Ectodermal Dysplasia
Fanconi Anemia
Fibrodysplasia Ossificans Progressiva
Fragile X Syndrome
Galactosemia
Gaucher Disease
Hemochromatosis
Hemophilia
Huntington's Disease
Hurler Syndrome
Hypophosphatasia
Klinefelter Syndrome
Krabbes Disease
Langer-Giedion Syndrome
Leukodystrophy
Long QT Syndrome
Marfan Syndrome
Moebius Syndrome
Mucopolysaccharidosis (MPS)
Nail Patella Syndrome
Nephrogenic Diabetes Insipidus
Neurofibromatosis
Niemann-Pick Disease
Osteogenesis Imperfecta
Porphyria
Prader-Willi Syndrome
Progeria
Proteus Syndrome
Retinoblastoma
Rett Syndrome
Rubinstein-Taybi Syndrome
Sanfilippo Syndrome
Shwachman Syndrome
Sickle Cell Disease
Smith-Magenis Syndrome
Stickler Syndrome
Tay-Sachs Disease
Thrombocytopenia Absent Radius (TAR) Syndrome
Treacher Collins Syndrome
Trisomy
Tuberous Sclerosis
Turner's Syndrome
Urea Cycle Disorder
von Hippel-Lindau Disease
Waardenburg Syndrome
Williams Syndrome

and Wilson's Disease to name just a handful, because those are all genetic disorders. If you deny that Noah and his sons had those genetic disorders, then you have no choice but to admit that they EVOLVED. If you claim Noah and his sons did already have those genetic disorders, then your god is not very intelligent and his design is grotesquely flawed, not to mention the fact that there's no way Noah could have constructed an ark with those genetic disorders.

Exploding...

Mircea

Originally Posted by Vizio

I've been wondering that myself. Why do non-religious folk feel compelled to come here?

To correct the false, deceiving and deceptive information that is presented by christians and others.

Correcting...

Mircea

Originally Posted by TWD39

So do you have a complete fossil record showing every form of gradual change from our ape ancestor to modern man? Show me exactly how our voice box and mechanism for speech came about. Where's the proof? If not, then I do declare macroevolution is quite the unproven theory.

This would be a great example of biological/physiological ignorance.

For decades and decades it was assumed that Homo Neanderthalensis was mute and could not speak, because there was no evidence of an hyoid bone. The hyoid bone is very small and very fragile, but it is very important, because it anchors the muscles at the back of the throat from the tongue and neck, and that is what allows speech.

It wasn't until the mid-1990s that we were fortunate enough to find skeletal remains of Homo Neanderthalensis with an intact hyoid bone, and not just one skeleton, but what is believed to be a family.

The first place scavengers bite is the neck, because the tissue is soft and it accesses the main arteries providing blood, so the hyoid bone is one of the first things to be destroyed or go missing. These skeletons were protected in a cave, and they probably died during winter, which would allow the cold temperatures to mask the odor of decaying flesh from scavenging animals and help preserve them.

A sufficient number of older humanoids -- eg Homo Ergaster, Homo Habilis, Homo Erectus -- have been found intact and demonstrated that they had no hyoid bone.

You also display a tremendous ignorance of "things statistical."

If 100% of all species were fossilized or otherwise preserved, then possibly your argument might have some merit, but that isn't the case.

Not every living humanoid in the past died in a fossilized/preserved state with a map-pin on GoogleEarth for us to find.

Add to that the fact that a large portion of the Earth is unsearchable, because it is underwater. We know for a fact the since 12,000 years ago, the sea levels have risen 600 ft to 800 ft (depending on the source(s) cited), so there are millions of square miles of land that we cannot search. Many communities would have located near seas and rivers, especially deltas, to take advantage of the abundant sources of food and water, and those areas are not underwater.

You're effectively demanding physical and documentary evidence for a charge of "Treason," when all that exists is testimonial evidence. The point being you have some rather high false expectations, but then you do believe in non-existent beings, so I guess I can at least credit you with being consistent.

Gradually...

Mircea

Originally Posted by elamigo

Good point. There are some, including Christians, that do not believe it was a universal event. This means that if such event happened it may have been a local event that covered the writer's account in his world. As far as impossible, why? The account of a flood can be found in civilizations around the world in differing ways. However, what makes it impossible? Take care.

That's what I hate about religion: it destroys everything, and that which is not destroyed is perverted.

They are very close to the Truth now. It'll still be a few decades to tie the loose ends together.

When the end is known, you'll discover that a meteor swarm struck Earth; that impacts in Canada and along what is now the entire eastern US seaboard resulted in the minor extinction event at the Pliocene-Holocene Boundary; that these meteors were responsible for the destruction of the entire western ice sheet (Ross Sea/Ross Shelf); that they caused tsunamis to sweep across the Earth's oceans for 3-5 days; that these tsunamis deposited large volumes of sand in the Andes, the Himalayas and other mountain chains; that these tsunamis swept across northern China creating the Gobi Desert; that these tsunamis are responsible for every single mass grave on Earth containing thousands of skeletal remains of various animals, including animals not indigenous to their respective regions; that the same tsunamis which created the animal graveyards also deposited a variety of flora there as well, including flora not indigenous to the region; and that the greenhouse gases resultant from land-based meteor strikes in addition to the destruction of the western ice sheet and the introduction of large volumes of fresh water into the ocean current system hastened the onset of the present Inter-Glacial Period.

Those tsunamis caused by that meteor swarm are the basis of every "flood story" on every continent (save Antarctica).

Over time, as this event became distant memory, it resulted in conflicts among each of the many different groups of peoples on Earth, and so each responded to it in kind based on their own culture.

The source of the story for the Hebrews was older texts from Babylonia (Amorites), Sumer & Akkad. Being scientifically ignorant, the Hebrews had to reconcile the true events with their very limited knowledge, and the only way they were able to explain the event was by the act of a god. That begged the question "Why would god do that?" which leads to the answer "people were evil" but then some people survived, which begs the question "How or why did they survive?" and so on.

Imagine being Japanese and having knowledge of an ancient event like the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

Someone with a child-like mentality would reason that no man or thing could have caused it, so it must have been a god that killed those people; and why would he do that? Because god was angry. And why was god angry? Because the people were evil and wouldn't listen to god. And why did some people live? Because they were good people.

Dumb yourself down to the mind-set of a 3-year old and you can the world as the Hebrews did.

Realistically...

Mircea

[Wild Colonial Girl]

Originally Posted by Eusebius

Ever hear of figurative language?

Israel was in a furnace for over 400 years when held captive in Egypt too. And God refined the dross out of them in the fires.

Was Egypt turned into a literal furnace? Did that furnace really have fire in it? Did God literally take dross out of the Israelites just as a goldsmith takes the dross out of gold?

Does a literal sword come out of Jesus' mouth in Revelation? Does He literallly morph into a lamb?

So you've ceded the point that the bible is not literal truth, so we agree that Noah and the ark is just one version of the classic epic world destruction except for one virtuous man story, and there was no more a guy with pairs of animals in a boat than there was a guy who repeopled the earth after said flood by throwing balls of clay over his shoulders. (Deucalion)