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I became interested in Near Death Experiences (NDE) as a result of reading Proof of Heaven by Eban Alexander. Following-up, I went to YouTube.com, and searched for accounts of NDE. I remain fascinated.
The central question is whether consciousness exists apart from our brain. Those who say, “yes,” speak of the brain as attempting to make sense of reality through our limited senses and experiences. We filter out other information, as it does not conform to what we see as real. I believe that consciousness does exist outside of our brain. Remember: conventional wisdom once dictated that the world was flat, the sun revolved around the earth, etc.
Relatively recently (50 years or so), legitimate scholars have begun investigating NDE, and have documented thousands of instances.
If you go to YouTube.com, and search the following phrases, you will hear about some of the research, as well as individual accounts of NDE.
--- Who we are (Documentary)
--- The near death experience of Nancy Rynes
--- From life to death, beyond and back
--- Is There Life after Death? Fifty Years of Research at UVA
--- Is There Life After Death? moderated by John Cleese
--- The Final Border: Peter Fenwick
--- Is Consciousness Produced by the Brain? by Bruce Greyson
--- Neurosurgeon says brain does not create consciousness
--- Dr. Bruce Greyson on What Near-Death Experiences Reveal
--- Are near-death experiences real? Here’s what science has to say
--- The Joy of Dying The University of Melbourne
Finally, here is one of the YouTube videos which poo-poos the notion that consciousness exists outside the brain. It’s pretty compelling, but (in my opinion) ignores the research that has been done.
--- The Neuroscience of Consciousness
A theist here. But I don't think everyone who has been near death has had an NDE. There were several occasion I had the pleasure of being pronounced dead. Twice from traumatic injuries and once from a heart Attack. No real memories of either.
However, One time I spent over a month in a coma. During that time, although I could not move, speak or respond I was very much aware of my surroundings. Yes, I did feel pain, but could not respond to it.
This is true.
Not everyone that has been close to death, or has clinically died has an NDE, or remembers it.
The late Kerry Packer (Aussie businessman) said after being dead for a few minutes from a heart attack:
Along the lines of :
“ I’ve got some good news and some bad news.
The good news is there’s no Hell, the bad news is there’s nothing there.”
Of course he’ll know for sure now, one way or the other.
I myself am in 2 minds about NDEs.
Many of the experiences, both positive and negative, seem to be very similar.
They usually point towards unbelievable and unbearable pain, punishment and suffering, or eternal bliss.
Evangelical Christians usually dismiss NDEs as “Un-Biblical”.
Is the Bible really meant to be comprehensive on Heaven and Hell, or anything in between?
Evangelical Christians usually dismiss NDEs as “Un-Biblical”.
Is the Bible really meant to be comprehensive on Heaven and Hell, or anything in between?
As far as evangelicals are concerned, yes, it is comprehensive. We were always taught that it is super dangerous to get information from anywhere else, due to the "danger of deception". As if no one is ever deceived about what scripture means. Or as if even evangelicals totally agree on what it means. But the inerrancy and sufficiency of scripture is a shibboleth to them.
As far as evangelicals are concerned, yes, it is comprehensive. We were always taught that it is super dangerous to get information from anywhere else, due to the "danger of deception". As if no one is ever deceived about what scripture means. Or as if even evangelicals totally agree on what it means. But the inerrancy and sufficiency of scripture is a shibboleth to them.
I agree it is an outmoded shibboleth, but I doubt it is to the evangelicals, mordant. IMO the bulk of Christian dogma is a shibboleth, fundamentalist or not.
I nearly died as a 10-year-old. I would not call it a classic NDE. There was no tunnel or white light.
What there was, was a sense of panic, fighting, acceptance and peace -like dominoes tumbling one into the other - all within a couple of moments of not being able to breathe.
Then there was being pulled out of the water and being dragged on shore. Upon opening my eyes at that point is when realization and truth rushed in to illuminate every pore of my still-panting being: I was the same as the sand and the grass on the beach where I laid. The same - yet unique - as each grain of sand and each blade of grass was unique unto itself.
The next five decades have largely been spent trying to fully understand the experience. Can't say I have, yet. But since that day, death has lost much of its sting. I don't sweat the small stuff. And I understand that most of what consumes us is small stuff.
I also learned that life is to be appreciated. I am grateful for every day.
As far as evangelicals are concerned, yes, it is comprehensive. We were always taught that it is super dangerous to get information from anywhere else, due to the "danger of deception". As if no one is ever deceived about what scripture means. Or as if even evangelicals totally agree on what it means. But the inerrancy and sufficiency of scripture is a shibboleth to them.
Thanks for the clarification.
I am very interested in Evangelical Christianity, including offshoots like Pentecostals and the Restoration Movement.
In the same way that an atheist, or a Non-Christian, can read the Bible- but with no emotional investment.
No different to a Muslim handing me the Quran / Koran, or an LDS the Book of Mormon etc.
Thanks for the clarification.
I am very interested in Evangelical Christianity, including offshoots like Pentecostals and the Restoration Movement.
In the same way that an atheist, or a Non-Christian, can read the Bible- but with no emotional investment.
No different to a Muslim handing me the Quran / Koran, or an LDS the Book of Mormon etc.
Sure, NP.
Restorationism is an interesting topic. The notion that there is an ideal, "primitive" Christian faith that we can recover, discarding all the cruft, pomp and circumstance of approved / organized religion (often equated with the "high church" traditions of Catholicism) certainly drives Christian fundamentalism. Another seminal influence is Darbyism. All of which took root in the early 19th century.
Members of "mainline" protestant denominations may be surprised that restorationism styles their faith as "dead", a mere form with no substance, driven by tradition and ritual -- in contrast to fundamentalism's "living", "vibrant" faith. And yet in practice, in my experience, fundamentalism can be exceedingly dour, and many of the people I shared my youth with in Christian fundamentalism seem, at this point in their lives (judging from the alumni newsletters I occasionally receive) to be largely going through the motions, "hanging on to the end", resigned to a truly joyful existence only being possible in the afterlife. So the ambition, the desire for excitement, is there, but largely unrealized in practice.
My personal view has come to be that if a modern Christian fundamentalist could somehow, via a time machine or something, become a fly on the wall so to speak of some "primitive" 1st century house church, the odds are that they would not recognize much of what they would see. The conceit that there is an uninterrupted thread (or river, really) of orthodoxy right back to Jesus, swatting the occasional fly of heresy, is really not an accurate portrayal of early Christianity, based on what we have learned of it in recent generations.
The truth is that there were a good dozen major competing sects that had Jesus at their center, but had wildly differing and mutually exclusive ideas about him, and about how the church was to be structured. The gnostics (themselves splintered into several major divisions) were prominent, as were Docetists, Ebionites, Marcionites and others. Modern orthodoxy is not a triumphalist expression of anti-heresy, it is just the one that survived because of a combination of factors, some of them organic, but not least that Constantine's mommy convinced him to embrace the particular flavor of Christianity that we know today, making it the state religion.
Fundamentalists and other reform-minded sects like the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons, cannot handle the real state of affairs pre-4th century, because they posit a "pure" Christianity that has been in some sense and to some degree "lost", and which they are in the business of "restoring". The truth is that there is nothing to restore; it is just the age-old story of different self-proclaimed orthodoxies duking it out for supremacy.
...
There is even a type of "induced" NDE-like experience which can be triggered with guided eye movements in something like 70% of people. It's used in PTSD treatment and grief counseling -- allowing one to find "closure" by "meeting" people who have died and hearing comforting messages that the deceased are okay, that the person being treated is forgiven for things they feel they need to be forgiven for, etc. These are very vivid for many who experience it, and can be very healing and releasing and can provide a sense of closure. But they can be triggered pretty much at will by someone who knows how to do it and there is no evidence that it's anything but people's subconscious generating subjective experiences.
Human consciousness is much more elaborate and creative than we generally realize.
Actually, there is a similar thing which is used in EFT (Emotional Freedom Technique) which includes eye movement in a small series as part of a treatment method. Interestingly, it includes humming a few bars from a song (like Happy Birthday for example) as well as the eye movements. There are several other things included in that series but I cannot remember what they are now.
Personally, I think this has something to do with acupuncture meridians and where they end. There are some endings at the edges of the eye which may get stimulated by the eye movements and perhaps even some deep in the ear which may be stimulated by the humming perhaps?
There is so much we dont know and so it cannot hurt to tie these things together to make the benefits more effective.
I nearly died as a 10-year-old. I would not call it a classic NDE. There was no tunnel or white light.
What there was, was a sense of panic, fighting, acceptance and peace -like dominoes tumbling one into the other - all within a couple of moments of not being able to breathe.
Then there was being pulled out of the water and being dragged on shore. Upon opening my eyes at that point is when realization and truth rushed in to illuminate every pore of my still-panting being: I was the same as the sand and the grass on the beach where I laid. The same - yet unique - as each grain of sand and each blade of grass was unique unto itself.
The next five decades have largely been spent trying to fully understand the experience. Can't say I have, yet. But since that day, death has lost much of its sting. I don't sweat the small stuff. And I understand that most of what consumes us is small stuff.
I also learned that life is to be appreciated. I am grateful for every day.
All of the bolded points are typical of NDE survivors. Word for word, some of it.
That's a lot for a 10-year-old to take in!
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