Do you agree that the Bible is error-free? (disciples, punishment, Jews)

[TWD39]

Originally Posted by DSS94

This page lists 463 contradictions in the Bible, many of which are fundamental to Christian doctrine.

First, one should wonder why would a skeptic waste so much time and energy ripping apart the Bible with such a list. That was quite an effort. The answer is the spirit of the anti-Christ, another proof that Satan is real.

Second, the vast majority of "contradictions" come from forcing fitting by taking two verses out of context, lack of understanding of the culture of the time such as forms of language structure and using legalistic cheats.

[Wardendresden]

This "discussion" is a sad commentary on both Christians and Christianity.

The Bible is neither fact NOR fiction. It is a faith book, and it uses all sorts of methods to impart spiritual truth.

Non-Christians fall into the trap of trying to make it a science book or an encyclopedia that can be proven or disproven. Christians fall into the trap of trying to make it so Holy that they overlook or ignore scientific facts.

The Bible is neither too Holy or completely fictional or anything between. It is a book about Faith. How Faith is found, how Faith grows, how Faith saves. It uses parables, fantastical stories, and hard facts to impart it's Faith message so that people of different cultures, different ethnic backgrounds, different races, and both sexes can find that Faith for themselves.

Not everyone can. The Bible haters will reject it all. The Bibliolators will try to lift it up like the Golden Calf below Mt. Sinai.

As stated in another post, the Bible is a WINDOW through which one may look at the heart of God. Some people stand to one side and some people to another and both get slightly different views of that heart. Some may kneel and look up through it. Some may climb a ladder and look down through it. So there are different views of God's heart from different perspectives.

The real problem is when people begin to look AT the window instead of THROUGH it. The result is the replacement of Christ with the artifact that simply points to Him. The Bible did not go to the Cross and suffer and bleed and die. Jesus did. And that is what brings salvation--not the Bible. The Bible just points to that event.

The other Christian problem is in believing that God once spoke and never spoke again. I try to keep my ear attuned to whatever God may have to say in the here and now. The Bible is simply my source book to confirm what I'm hearing or seeing in the now. I look around me and see that everything in existence was made by God. Man may have altered it, or bent it toward another purpose, but God is the author. Therefore, in one fashion or another EVERYTHING is holy. Not everything is used by men for a holy purpose.

The biggest problem for unbelievers---is their unbelief. Argument will not change that unbelief. But living a Christlike life in front of them just might. Ghandi once said, "If it were not for Christians, I would be a Christian."
Now what does that mean? He was trying to say that the Christ revealed in the Bible was not the Christ he saw in those who claimed to be Christians.

The biggest problem for believers--- the BIBLE. Many are so into "proving" the Bible, judging others with the Bible, arguing the precepts of the Bible, that they miss the daily opportunity God gives them to live like Christ--with kindness toward others, forgiveness toward all, with a helping hand for those who may not request it but need it anyway.

The world spins away from us Christians in our silly arguments with one another and with unbelievers. Live for Christ! The example you set will prove more than the Bible ever has or ever will. Look at the dirtiest, filthiest, ungodly and profane person you know. That person is YOU to God. God loved you and forgave you in spite of what you were. You remain His child not because of what you do, but because of Who He is. And all he asks of you, is that you will extend the same love and forgivenss that He extended to you to everyone you meet.

I have a granddaughter. There is absolutely nothing she could do that would make me stop loving her. There are plenty of things she could do (and has done some) to disappoint me and hurt me. But I love her forever. As God loves me--and you--and even the people that you and I would rather not love.

I leave this thread with a final thought:
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Hate multiplies hate, violence multiplies violence, and toughness multiplies toughness in a descending spiral of destruction.---The chain reaction of evil--hate begetting hate, wars producing more wars--must be broken, or we shall be plunged into the dark abyss of annihilation."
Martin Luther King, Jr. Strength to Love, 1963

It's up to us, Christians to break that chain of evil by displaying the love of God

[DSS94]

First, one should wonder why would a skeptic waste so much time and energy ripping apart the Bible with such a list. That was quite an effort. The answer is the spirit of the anti-Christ, another proof that Satan is real.

Or maybe it's quite an effort to stop the cycle of destruction brought about by religion.

Originally Posted by jimmiej

This is your opinion?

I suppose, but I think I listed some pretty damn important things.

Are you a Christian?

Please tell me that's a rhetorical question.

What about the other 400?

Every contradiction just goes to show that the Bible is not infallible or error-free. It was written by human beings and not any higher authority, plain and simple.

[Horn of ‘83]

Originally Posted by DSS94

Or maybe it's quite an effort to stop the cycle of destruction brought about by religion.


I suppose, but I think I listed some pretty damn important things.


Please tell me that's a rhetorical question.


Every contradiction just goes to show that the Bible is not infallible or error-free. It was written by human beings and not any higher authority, plain and simple.

That list is a joke. I counted 2, maybe 3 that are fundamental to Christianity. And those are not contradictions, but failure to note context. Virtually every one of them can easily be explained. The list was put together with an obvious bias. Some are a real stretch.

[Geoff_in_Aus]

Originally Posted by Griffis

Sure. So they say. Right now, somewhere in the Middle East, there is a young man or woman who is absolutely certain they are hearing the voice of God (the same God as that of Jews and Christians) exhorting them to strap explosives to their bodies, walk into a crowded plaza, and blow up as many innocent people as possible. They are sure this is what God wants of them.

The voices they hear are no more or less "real" or valid than those of anyone else claiming to hear the voice of God, or angels, demons, fairies, leprechauns, etc..

That is only true in as much as consistency, reason and love are not present. Yet you and many others use this stupid argument as yet one more reason to explain why 2000 years ago God fell silent. The sources I can produce all contain LOVE, REASON and CONSISTENCY. I am sure abnormal individuals have existed sine the beginning of mankind. Certainly during all the period the OT and NT lay claim to.

[Geoff_in_Aus]

Originally Posted by DSS94

Every contradiction just goes to show that the Bible is not infallible or error-free.

True

Originally Posted by DSS94

It was written by human beings and not any higher authority, plain and simple.

Not true. Does not follow point 1. And it is not any proof that higher beings did not play some role in the communication of truths. The evidence of the human mind in these records is simply that. Evidence of the human mind. It does not have anything to say about more advanced minds.

[Amaznjohn]

Originally Posted by TWD39

Give one example of immoral teaching by Christ.

Gladly.

Matthew 5:28
But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

This is not true because unmarried men cannot commit adultery. Besides, if men had not lusted for a woman, not many men would be married. Lust is simply nature drawing two humans together for procreation. And, why does it not say the same for women? Cannot women lust for men or women for women or men for men?

[rifleman]

Originally Posted by TWD39

You just proven how fallible science really is with your "null hypothesis". Let's say you lived in the Amazon with no way of traveling far. A foreigner comes and tells you about a white substance called snow. It exists! He claims. But you can't see it, touch it, feel it. Therefore, because of "null hypothesis" snow can not exist! It is a FACT. That's really how stupid your science is.


The burden of proof lies on the person who makes a claim as proven fact. You claim the Bible is a work of fiction so back it up.

Of course, such scientifically based investigation or claims would be accompanied, obviously with the usual & mandated trappings of any good scientific investigation, so obviously lacking in Christian claims.

I really don't care how many of the already-devout think they are hearing God's voice. This is like all those earth escapees drinking the Kool-Aide together. Some proof, as they all died waiting for the mother ship to come get 'em. How did that work out for them, BTW?

Let's see: can you remember, TWD?

This supporting info is simply not ever in evidence with your silly claims of biblical inerrancy.

BTW, you don't understand the null hypothesis, do you? And so, you continue to demo your vast misunderstandings, or alternately, your ability to continue smothering your posts with inadequate tripe, which is easily spotted by even the most amateur scientists out there.

In other words, you present an EPIC FAIL argument, and yet are seemingly proud of it! Perhaps you do it for your equally scientifically baffled friends A sort of "Oh watch me make 'em mad with my silly posts!"

Yup: VERY Christian, instead of being intellectually honest. I had no idea that Christians were so deception-filled and prone to lying for dramatic effect! I know I'm impressd for sure!

Science per se; you know, that process you understand so very poorly, mandates evidentiary info, such as photos, measurements, documentation, actual samples, other's accounts from the field, and so on. Those observations, and only then perhaps an accompanying hypothesis, are then open to detailed additional investigation and peer-review, a part of it all you Selectively and Conveniently prefer to endlessly ignore, so you can re-chant your tiresome and illiterate rote-a-chant and parroted diatribes against all science.

How hopelessly inadequate an argument you continue to provide: all anecdotal and self-supporting:

"I believe I hear voices from God, therefore I do hear voices from God! Thus He exists! Proven:no other silly evidence available!"

(But do press on: we continue to be amused! Good fun for all of us on NY Eve!

(cue the applause from my Evil™ atheist & scientist friends over here tonight! Keep it up, TWD!)

[Geoff_in_Aus]

Originally Posted by rifleman

"I believe I hear voices from God, therefore I do hear voices from God! Thus He exists! Proven:no other silly evidence available!"

I would assert no other evidence is required, because the search for God is subjective, its meant to be subjective, and God is fine if you won't go there. I could use different words, like God is not a time-space being, hence any direct proof within time-space cannot be achieved. Of course there is lots of indirect proof. But again, if you don't like it, hey its your choice. God's fine with that too. Why even argue?

[Ceist]

Originally Posted by Vizio

The Bible, in its original text, was error free. There have been some issues of mistranslation over the years, but by and large, we have about 99% of the original texts....and there are no major doctrinal issues that are debatable as a result.

Are you serious? We have NONE of the original manuscripts.