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If I live in an area where 90-95% of the people want that, so be it. That was the vision of the Founding Fathers.
Then Christians in Muslim lands should stop complaining. Yet God knows I would complain about these sort of abuses if I lived in a currently Muslim country...its just not right. Go read works and letters by the Founding Fathers, see what their vision actually was.
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As it was a few years ago my kid's "Winter Play" was about a "Winter Wizard". I'm not sure that's any better. They couldn't even do a child's play about Santa Claus.
They couldn't do a Play about Santa Claus because why? did atheists complain? or was it radical Christians?
even so, whats wrong with a Winter Play being about a Winter Wizard? Nothing sectarian about a Winter Wizard.
The religion isn't being supported by a picture being hung.
What other purpose can it possibly serve? And if it's not supporting a religion, what's the big deal about religious freedom with respect to taking it down?
No. They agreed to no such thing. The rules changed, some say unconstitutionally, to mandate employee health care coverage or a penalty/tax (whichever the Obama administration now considers it), is to be imposed. Until now, employer-provided health care was an optional benefit, used by employers, to attract good workers. I would put this up as a big a travesty as the principle of public buildings promoting a particular religion.
Yes, rules change. And those who say that they changed unconstitutionally have a different opinion from that of SCOTUS, who did agree that it was a constitutional change.
But aside from that, having employers opt out of laws because they have a religious objection to what their employees might do on their own time is bizarre.
If the owners of Hobby Lobby don't want to take birth control, fine, they do not have to. You are supporting their desire to impose their personal religion on their employees, and how their employees conduct their private lives. This is what makes atheists wary of Christians.
But let's assume that the Hobby Lobby prevails, and it becomes law for a private corporation to impose the religious beliefs of its owners upon its employees. The following results are possible and/or likely.
Scientologists opt out of psychological care for their employees.
JW opt out of transfusions.
Westboro Baptist followers (in their secular businesses) opt out of coverage for LGBT.
Christian Scientists opt out of health care entirely.
I opt out of coverage for left handed people, because I hate them, and I devoutly believe that they are satanic.
Where does it stop?
Let's take it a step farther. Say that a Hobby Lobby exec finds out that an employee had an abortion last week. Do you dock her pay by $500? After all, she earned that money by working at HL, and used it to do something that offends them.
What people do on their own time, with their own earned money/earned benefits, is their own business. Religious people need to understand that and stop interfering in the private lives of adults. What ever happened to the concept of American freedom?
Yes, rules change. And those who say that they changed unconstitutionally have a different opinion from that of SCOTUS, who did agree that it was a constitutional change.
But aside from that, having employers opt out of laws because they have a religious objection to what their employees might do on their own time is bizarre.
If the owners of Hobby Lobby don't want to take birth control, fine, they do not have to. You are supporting their desire to impose their personal religion on their employees, and how their employees conduct their private lives. This is what makes atheists wary of Christians.
But let's assume that the Hobby Lobby prevails, and it becomes law for a private corporation to impose the religious beliefs of its owners upon its employees. The following results are possible and/or likely.
Scientologists opt out of psychological care for their employees.
JW opt out of transfusions.
Westboro Baptist followers (in their secular businesses) opt out of coverage for LGBT.
Christian Scientists opt out of health care entirely.
I opt out of coverage for left handed people, because I hate them, and I devoutly believe that they are satanic.
Where does it stop?
Let's take it a step farther. Say that a Hobby Lobby exec finds out that an employee had an abortion last week. Do you dock her pay by $500? After all, she earned that money by working at HL, and used it to do something that offends them.
What people do on their own time, with their own earned money/earned benefits, is their own business. Religious people need to understand that and stop interfering in the private lives of adults. What ever happened to the concept of American freedom?
You are only looking at the issue from the side of the employee. The employee has the freedom to go work somewhere else if they don't share Hobby Lobby's Christian values or like their benefits package. An employer should have the right to establish the level of benefits that they want to provide.
Now if they promised to provide birth control and then denied it to an employee then the employee has a right to complain. The issue at hand is that the employer is being forced to establish benefits that they feel are morally wrong. It would be equivalent to the government forcing a PETA organization to provide compensation for hunting license fees for all their employees.
You know it seems as though a lot of people forget about the history of this country before it became a country. A prime example is in 1667 a woman by the name of Goodwife Willey was brought before the court because she did not bring her children or herself to attend a public prayer, the court fined her five shillings.... This was in Boston, Massachusetts.... I wonder, is this the kind of thing that we want to go back to? If we don't keep church separated from state then this is what will happen..
You are only looking at the issue from the side of the employee.
Actually I am looking at it from the point of view of the US government and the citizens of the US. You are only looking at if from the point of view of the employer.
But that is irrelevant on both sides. A law was passed that needs to apply to all equally. I have pointed out many logical results of religious exemptions, and could come up with hundreds more. This would make this law, or any, irrelevant if there was a blanket exception for religious opinion.
As a case in point, I could start a religion that objected to paying taxes. Does that mean I no longer have to?
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The employee has the freedom to go work somewhere else if they don't share Hobby Lobby's Christian values or like their benefits package. An employer should have the right to establish the level of benefits that they want to provide.
He president, congress, senate and supreme court disagree.
HL is not a church. It is a corporation. It exists under different rules than a church.
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Now if they promised to provide birth control and then denied it to an employee then the employee has a right to complain. The issue at hand is that the employer is being forced to establish benefits that they feel are morally wrong. It would be equivalent to the government forcing a PETA organization to provide compensation for hunting license fees for all their employees.
If hunting licenses were recognized as a human right and mandated by law, then yes, absolutely. PETA would have to provide them.
You know one of the things that I'm an advocate of, is that if you're going to talk on a subject, at least educate yourself about the subject from all respects. Here's a little history lesson...... There is an old saying that says, that if you don't learn from history, you're bound to repeat it.
You know it seems as though a lot of people forget about the history of this country before it became a country. A prime example is in 1667 a woman by the name of Goodwife Willey was brought before the court because she did not bring her children or herself to attend a public prayer, the court fined her five shillings.... This was in Boston, Massachusetts.... I wonder, is this the kind of thing that we want to go back to? If we don't keep church separated from state then this is what will happen..
Extremists always push for the maximum in their direction, ptsum . . . that is the real problem. For the anti-religion crowd it is NOT enough to keep the government from establishing a religion. They want ANY mention of God eliminated from the public square which violates the freedom of expression. If there is no freedom of expression in the public square . . . there is no freedom of expression. For the pro-religion crowd it is not enough to have freedom of expression of their religious views. They want a theocracy with all their moral values instantiated into law for everyone. It seems the extremists will always push for their extreme positions causing significant angst and discord for the majority. The result has been pendulum swings toward the extremes that seem to cycle by generations.
Extremists always push for the maximum in their direction, ptsum . . . that is the real problem. For the anti-religion crowd it is NOT enough to keep the government from establishing a religion. They want ANY mention of God eliminated from the public square which violates the freedom of expression.
You are making an error when you assume that the middle is the correct place to be.
Eliminating religion from the public square does not violate free expression. You are free to pray on your own time, post billboards on your front lawn, build a church, go on a mission, hand out missives on street corners, convert your neighbors and wear religious jewelry.
You are not free to use government resources and prominence nice to push your religion, and nobody else can do so for their religion either. The safest way to do this is to eliminate prayer and religious imagery...in government settings.
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