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Good luck establishing anything. Whether or not there is a god or gods, or a creator or creators, there most certainly is not any evidence for them whatsoever. Much less proof.
Then why do most people throughout history believe in a creator?
Then why do most people throughout history believe in a creator?
A more interesting question is why have they believed in so many different, mutually exclusive ones? You'd think that if their beliefs corresponded to reality there would be more agreement.
A more interesting question is why have they believed in so many different, mutually exclusive ones? You'd think that if their beliefs corresponded to reality there would be more agreement.
Then why do most people throughout history believe in a creator?
Quote:
Originally Posted by KCfromNC
A more interesting question is why have they believed in so many different, mutually exclusive ones? You'd think that if their beliefs corresponded to reality there would be more agreement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
Nice dodge!
The answer to your initial question is quite simple. Ancient peoples were ignorant of the way things in nature work.
They were also people who generally lived under the yoke of an earthly ruler and had an easy time imagining that there was a greater "Ruler in the Sky" (or rulers, since pantheism and henotheism have been more common than monotheism throughout history.)
But more fundamentally, belief in invisible supernatural entities arises out of ignorance.
People see things happening they cannot understand and create a cause.
In ancient times, if a person was physically or mentally ill, they were commonly believed to be under the influence of some supernatural force.
Even the movement of the Earth, sun, moon, stars and planets were all attributed to gods.
Why did my crops fail? Why did all my cattle fall ill? Why did that volcano erupt? Why is there an eclipse today? Why did a flood wipe out my village?
Must be angry gods/demons/angels/fairies/leprechauns, etc.
You might ask yourself: Why are there fewer gods worshipped, and by fewer people than there were in ancient times?
It''s because we are growing and learning as a race.
You might also ask yourself: Do I have any actual reason to assert that the invisible supernatural entity in which I believe is any more "real" than the invisible supernatural entity anyone else has ever believed in in any culture any time in history?
Because the fact is, not only is there no evidence whatsoever for the existence of gods, there is far less evidence that one specific god is real and all others are false. That's nonsense.
PS-- KCfromNC's response to you was not a "dodge." It's a perfectly valid and interesting and pertinent question. Which you dodged.
The answer to your initial question is quite simple. Ancient peoples were ignorant of the way things in nature work.
They were also people who generally lived under the yoke of an earthly ruler and had an easy time imagining that there was a greater "Ruler in the Sky" (or rulers, since pantheism and henotheism have been more common than monotheism throughout history.)
But more fundamentally, belief in invisible supernatural entities arises out of ignorance.
People see things happening they cannot understand and create a cause.
In ancient times, if a person was physically or mentally ill, they were commonly believed to be under the influence of some supernatural force.
Even the movement of the Earth, sun, moon, stars and planets were all attributed to gods.
Why did my crops fail? Why did all my cattle fall ill? Why did that volcano erupt? Why is there an eclipse today? Why did a flood wipe out my village?
Must be angry gods/demons/angels/fairies/leprechauns, etc.
You might ask yourself: Why are there fewer gods worshipped, and by fewer people than there were in ancient times?
It''s because we are growing and learning as a race.
You might also ask yourself: Do I have any actual reason to assert that the invisible supernatural entity in which I believe is any more "real" than the invisible supernatural entity anyone else has ever believed in in any culture any time in history?
Because the fact is, not only is there no evidence whatsoever for the existence of gods, there is far less evidence that one specific god is real and all others are false. That's nonsense.
PS-- KCfromNC's response to you was not a "dodge." It's a perfectly valid and interesting and pertinent question. Which you dodged.
So, according to you, most people are ignorant. Did I understand you correctly?
So, according to you, most people are ignorant. Did I understand you correctly?
Everyone is ignorant of many things.
But you are mischaracterizing what I said.
Ancient peoples invented gods, etc. to explain what was to them, with their understanding of the workings of nature, unexplainable.
These beliefs are deeply ingrained in us. They still exist, obviously.
But to attribute what we don't understand to invisible supernatural entities is becoming less and less necessary as we acquire knowledge and discover how things actually work, especially since there is not now nor has there ever been any evidence for such beings (whether they actually exist or not is another matter.)
A couple of centuries ago a person with mental or physical ailments may well have been thought to be under the influence of demonic forces. Today we know that's nonsense.
Then why do most people throughout history believe in a creator?
Appeal to popularity. This is a logical fallacy, but you clearly think it's a brilliant argument on your part. Most people throughout history also believed that time and space were fixed.
Appeal to popularity. This is a logical fallacy, but you clearly think it's a brilliant argument on your part. Most people throughout history also believed that time and space were fixed.
...or that the Earth was flat, or that non-white people were soulless savages, or that women were inferior, or that Justin Bieber makes good music....
Appeal to popularity. This is a logical fallacy, but you clearly think it's a brilliant argument on your part. Most people throughout history also believed that time and space were fixed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffis
...or that the Earth was flat, or that non-white people were soulless savages, or that women were inferior, or that Justin Bieber makes good music....
And yet, most people still believe in a creator, even seemingly intelligent, educated people. Surely, if there was no evidence, most would abandon their beliefs.
The question is... what is evidence when considering the potential existence of a creator?
Belief in a creator at some point (or even to some extent, belief in lack of a creator) comes down to taking a leap of faith. Science has yet to prove conclusively one way or the other, with plenty of debate still going on and people who are well versed in the universe going in all manner of direction.
Those who believe, as well as those who disbelieve, are able to line up circumstantial evidence which can point one way or the other, and of course those folks tend to have a feeling about who has the better circumstantial evidence.
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