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Old 01-26-2013, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Deep Dirty South
5,190 posts, read 5,322,930 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
And yet, most people still believe in a creator, even seemingly intelligent, educated people. Surely, if there was no evidence, most would abandon their beliefs.
It's the cultural paradigm. This is easily demonstrated because a person born in most parts of the Western World, where Christianity is the ruling milieu, will likely become Christian.

A person born in the Middle East will likely become Muslim.

A person born in India will likely become Hindu, or perhaps Buddhist.

It's not mystical.

And, for the record, the fact is there is not now nor has there ever been any "evidence" for the existence of gods or other invisible supernatural beings.
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Old 01-26-2013, 09:37 AM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffis View Post
. It's the cultural paradigm. This is easily demonstrated because a person born in most parts of the Western World, where Christianity is the ruling milieu, will likely become Christian.

A person born in the Middle East will likely become Muslim.

A person born in India will likely become Hindu, or perhaps Buddhist.

It's not mystical.
You're changing the subject. I'm simply talking about a creator, not a specific religion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffis View Post
And, for the record, the fact is there is not now nor has there ever been any "evidence" for the existence of gods or other invisible supernatural beings.
It's illogical to say an intelligent person would continue to believe with no evidence.
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Old 01-26-2013, 12:23 PM
 
Location: Missouri
661 posts, read 1,182,137 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post

It's illogical to say an intelligent person would continue to believe with no evidence.
Rafael Martinez, Co-Director, Spiritwatch Ministries:


"Myth #1 – People in cults are mindless fanatics.

Untrue. Virtually every member of every cultic group existing on in our world today began their entry into the group as generally balanced, thinking people who have great potential, skills and giftings they want to offer to a cause "larger than themselves." Cult members are both CEO's and dishwashers, white-collar and blue-collar, scientists as well as grade-school dropouts. While it is undeniably true that some of them have plunged into extremist forms of behavior, and that all labor under some form of cultic mind control that compels them onward into an apparently zealous activism or passion, all of them retain the capacity for critical thought (their ability to responsibly function in society proves this), but have been taught to suspend their faculties of independent and objective thought when focusing on their involvement with the group."

I was in what I believe is a very strong contender for a cult and there were some very intelligent people who had invested their whole lives in it. I believe that cognitive dissonance has a lot to do with it, and that very few people in this world, if any, are completely free of it.
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Old 01-26-2013, 01:18 PM
 
Location: New York City
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Ignorance (willful or otherwise) = gods and demons
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Old 01-26-2013, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Deep Dirty South
5,190 posts, read 5,322,930 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
You're changing the subject. I'm simply talking about a creator, not a specific religion.
And you, again, are misrepresenting what I have said. Perhaps you just have a reading comprehension deficit. Look at what you quoted from me. I am clearly discussing all religions in general.

If I mistook you for a Christian, I apologize. If you are a Christian, then you are again being disingenuous because in reality you are thinking of Yahweh when you think of a creator.

It's like the people who want to push for creationist nonsense to be taught alongside science in public schools. They aren't advocating for any kind of contextual, compare/contrast discussion in which creation stories from different cultures are presented; they clearly are pushing for the specific Judeo-Christian creation mythos.

Quote:
It's illogical to say an intelligent person would continue to believe with no evidence.
People are illogical. Is that a surprise? But religious beliefs, as deeply ingrained as they are on an individual and cultural level, are on the wane. This is evident. There are more and more nonbelievers with every passing generation, at least in the first world.

But as far as jumping to illogical conclusions with no evidence, I'm afraid that is just also a deeply ingrained aspect of human nature.

Take ghosts, for instance. Just like gods, we don't know with certainty that they exist. They may; they may not. There is no concrete evidence for them (as with gods.) But, while people often do it, it IS illogical to, for example, experience something that you can't presently explain and declare that it must have been a "haunting" or "poltergeist activity" or whatever, without examining, considering, and dismissing a whole host of other possibilities first.

I think of that guy on the Ancient Aliens TV show which I've seen a few minutes of here and there. His entire belief system seems to be predicated on the idea that "We don't know hw the Egyptians gained the know-how and technology to produce the pyramids, therefore ALIENS must have been involved!"

There is an old saying:

Never look for unicorns until you have run out of ponies.

So true.

While I truly believe there are all kinds of phenomena in reality and in the universe that we don't yet comprehend--may never comprehend--and things we aren't even aware of the existence of, and many inexplicable things that happen in our lives with some regularity, I think it is a mistake to be lazy and simply ascribe these things to supernatural events or "miracles" or gods, etc.

Like the eclipse example I mentioned earlier. To ancient humans, the only explanation for them was gods. Now we know precisely why and how they occur. The "supernatural" becomes "preternatural" becomes the natural.
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Old 01-26-2013, 02:20 PM
 
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Religion is one of the biggest frauds mankind has ever invented.

There is no evidence that any God exists or has ever existed and simple observations shows that humanity is insignificant in the universe.
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Old 01-26-2013, 03:38 PM
 
Location: Deep Dirty South
5,190 posts, read 5,322,930 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Freak View Post
There is no evidence that any God exists or has ever existed and simple observations shows that humanity is insignificant in the universe.
Completely agree. There is no reason to believe humans are any more cosmically significant than carpenter ants, or a cloud of dust particles kicked around by an errant wind.

I've often wondered why people so often feel the need to attach some kind of external purpose or meaning to existence. I feel my life has plenty of purpose and meaning and I don't believe in gods or an afterlife. What's more, even if I were inclined to believe in those things, I don't think they'd have an affect on my life or how I live it.
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Old 01-26-2013, 03:47 PM
 
19,942 posts, read 17,134,400 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sci Fi Fan View Post
It is not reasonable to suggest that he is parental, loving or in manner partial to us. You wanting this to be true does not make it so.
Why?
Quote:


This cause does not have to be complex or sentient. The principle of parsimony suggests that the first cause is simple.
You obviously don't realize what I was saying by necessary and sufficient cause. If the means and cause are there to create the universe, it would automatically happen. That means that it would have been created eons ago and the universe would have run down by now.
Quote:

The Big Bang Theory states that the Universe had a beginning. You are mistaking this with an "origin". The Universe could be the first cause that caused itself. This is more believable than a deity that caused itself.
Highly laughable. For the reasons stated above.
Quote:



No, religious books have told us that God told us that he loves us and intervenes. This has no relevance to the First Cause argument, which makes no reason for God's intervention or love.
God inspired the Bible to be written. He told mankind that he loves us.
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Old 01-26-2013, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,425 posts, read 12,723,464 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Freak View Post
Religion is one of the biggest frauds mankind has ever invented.

There is no evidence that any God exists or has ever existed and simple observations shows that humanity is insignificant in the universe.
So this is all just a cosmic "accident"?
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Old 01-26-2013, 04:42 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,425 posts, read 12,723,464 times
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You said this:

Quote:
Quote:
Good luck establishing anything. Whether or not there is a god or gods, or a creator or creators, there most certainly is not any evidence for them whatsoever. Much less proof.
How am I misinterpreting that?
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