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I really dislike this sort of mentality, and quite honestly it scares me. Why? Because it seems that when one says something of this nature that the only thing keeping them from doing bad things is their belief in a deity. That is the logic that seems to rub off. Are you saying that if you did not believe in a deity you would not be a good person?
Of course not GCSTroop, he's saying you'd have no motive to be honest. Which is just as ridiculous.
The masons are one of the best religions. You don't have to believe anything really. Just claim you do. And a satanist, a muslim, and a Christian can stand side by side and pray together to their individual gods(God).
And trust me, belief in a deity doesn't seem to have much effect on keeping some people from doing very bad things, as I am sure you could attest.
Now all that being said, I do believe that 'generally speaking' (which is dangerous in and of itself) people with a belief AND CONVICTION of God, will OVERALL have higher standards of what's considered acceptable behavior than a group who doesn't feel like that they answer to a God. Of course, that's nothing more than one person's opinion, and I might be wrong.
NASHVILLE, Tenn. (BP)--Is it necessary to believe in God in order to have solid personal values? A new survey seems to answer that question with a "yes."
wow, the baptist press seems like a really fair and objective bunch to be doing a poll on religious matters. i couldn't imagine a more credible site. plus i'm sure they took a large sample of the population from an area with a lot of different religious beliefs.
Of course not GCSTroop, he's saying you'd have no motive to be honest. Which is just as ridiculous.
Errr... that just makes me so....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207
The masons are one of the best religions. You don't have to believe anything really. Just claim you do. And a satanist, a muslim, and a Christian can stand side by side and pray together to their individual gods(God).
SWEET! I want to join the masons as a believer in the Flying Spaghetti Monster!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207
And trust me, belief in a deity doesn't seem to have much effect on keeping some people from doing very bad things, as I am sure you could attest.
No argument here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207
Now all that being said, I do believe that 'generally speaking' (which is dangerous in and of itself) people with a belief AND CONVICTION of God, will OVERALL have higher standards of what's considered acceptable behavior than a group who doesn't feel like that they answer to a God. Of course, that's nothing more than one person's opinion, and I might be wrong.
Actually I am somewhat almost willing to agree with you for once But, I am only saying that because I think people do better in groups. They receive more exposure to the world, and this helps them develop certain standards. I don't think God has anything to do with it, but I do think the group atmosphere of church, school, the local synchronized swimming team etc... all benefit people with group interaction. So, that is something that I will cede to the religious groups, that church does give one more opportunity for people to get together.
... Are you saying that if you did not believe in a deity you would not be a good person?
No.
It is not about being 'good', or a good person.
While they desire good men, and profess to make men better, righteousness can only be sought via your religion. This is a group about doing good.
This fraternity requires oaths from it's members to help each other, to mentor each other, and in case of a member's death to provide for that member's family, etc. They [by the rules of the fraternity] consider that a Christian, a Jew, or a Muslim; when promising something are more likely to perform.
I have never seen nor heard of a 'satanist' being a mason.
However as 'Alpha' alluded anyone can say anything, they could be lying, and some possibly do.
They are not a religion, rather they expect their members to be religious, each in their own denomination. With the charity work, fund raising, scholarships, and prayers at every meeting; a member who is faking it, will find it bored and will not be motivated to continue. Those who have been active in the fraternity for many years and are advancing up through the degrees are usually the deacons and elders of their churches.
...
Now all that being said, I do believe that 'generally speaking' (which is dangerous in and of itself) people with a belief AND CONVICTION of God, will OVERALL have higher standards of what's considered acceptable behavior than a group who doesn't feel like that they answer to a God. Of course, that's nothing more than one person's opinion, and I might be wrong.
... Actually I am somewhat almost willing to agree with you for once But, I am only saying that because I think people do better in groups. They receive more exposure to the world, and this helps them develop certain standards. I don't think God has anything to do with it, but I do think the group atmosphere of church, school, the local synchronized swimming team etc... all benefit people with group interaction. So, that is something that I will cede to the religious groups, that church does give one more opportunity for people to get together.
You think that "exposure to the world" and opportunities for people to join in 'groups' will conform them to be 'good'?
I would think it to be far more personal then group behavior.
You think that "exposure to the world" and opportunities for people to join in 'groups' will conform them to be 'good'?
I would think it to be far more personal then group behavior.
I didn't say it will conform them, I said I think it helps them. I've been on this forum for a few months now, and believe it or not, there have been a couple of things that the religious have brought up as well as atheists in regards to morality, both good and bad, that I hadn't thought of. Life is a continual learning experience, and I do think that attending a group function, regardless of the type, helps people socialize and see things differently. I'm not saying that it sets a moral precedent, I'm saying that it helps people acclimate to what is accepted as the norm in society in terms of being moral.
Their thought is that if you do not think that one day you will be made to stand before a creator for judgement; then what motive do you have toward honesty?
Because it's the right thing to do.
Personally I find it offensive that anyone would think that I'm not an honest, trustworthy, generous person because I'm not religious. That's not a very Christian attitude.
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
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imho, not because you are an atheist it doesn't mean that you don't have a soul or the consciousness that comes with it, just because you don't believe on it doesn't means that yours vanishes.
and it is this soul or higher self, God's image speaks to you and convinces you to do good, opposed to ego or lower self who just wants to do things that are on their own benefit, there are atheists with strong souls and religious people with strong egos, that's what inclines you to do evil or good imho.
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