Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
On behalf of all true "believers", I apologize for anyone calling themselves a person of God who told you you are somehow "less human" than anyone else
I'm also sorry that you have found the believers you've come in contact with to be "scary people". That's really sad.
Remember preschool or kindergarten when you tried to put a round block into a square hole?
Didn't work.
Most people are in the habit of deflecting the Great Questions as they are unwilling to ever answer "I don't know at present". What there really is within all of us is a great pattern-matching engine that drives our curiosity but part of growing up is learning that it often deceives us into seeing patterns where they don't exist, particularly in areas where knowledge is incomplete. We must learn to sit with uncertainty and not make up stuff just to relieve the tension. The right way to relieve the tension is to say, I don't know and it's okay that I don't know -- better to be honest than to kid myself.
Our ability and desire to make connections serves us well when in dangerous situations (e.g., pursued by predators) but it doesn't work very well in the modern world anymore.
Speaking of putting round pegs in square holes -- that is what religion does. The rest of us just put nothing in the hole until we find something that actually and objectively fits.
Until recent times a person in the Americas would not speak against Christianity and would strive to be seen as a "Good American Christian" Being christian in American was necessary if one was to be accepted as being a "True American" any views that seemed to be outside Christian teaching meant risking acceptance by family, friends and co-workers. Being Christian played a big part for a person's success in the community.
Dissension against Christianity was virtually impossible from the time of the "Holy Roman Empire" to the Christianizing of the Americas. The growth of Fundamentalist American Christianity in the 1900s has become the portal for the fall of organized denominations in North America.
From 13th Century Europe through the 20th century Christianity has been the dominating force over Europeans and Americans. It is probably because of the rapid rise of American evangelism that the door has opened for ctiticism of Christian denominations, which in turn has made it permissible to criticize Christianity as a whole.
When the Evangelists opened the door to condemn Catholicism and Main stream Protestant churches it opened the door to make criticism of Christianity acceptable. People were no longer afraid of openly disagreeing with the established clergy.
American Fundamentalist Evangelism ended Romes hold on Christianity. but it also divided Christianity and brought internal conflict. This has made it possible for anti-Christian sentiment to grow. People in America are no longer afraid to acknowledge they are not Christian. The same is probably occuring in Europe and the rest of the Christian nations as American Evangelists carry their proselytizing beyond the Americas. The long established denominations are being replaced by disorganized, emotion based short term flashes of worship that soon burn out and leave smoldering embers that destroy organized Christianity. The doors for criticism abainst Christianity have been opened by the very people that thought they were spreading Christianity.
But a sad part is this freedom to criticize has also allowed some to become anti-Christian to a hostile level. This is the barrier to Peace between believers and non-believers.
Just my opinion and probably was too wordy to make sense.
Actually it makes a lot of sense. If you want a more concise version, perhaps the best that can be said is that in the 19th century, the most educated people in any community were ordinarily the doctor and the preacher. As education became much more broadly available, though, the hegemony these people had over the facts and how to (mis)handle was usurped, and now they actually have to defend their more self-serving assertions. This is truest of the preacher, who not only no longer has a monopoly on perceived learnedness, but also is defending an ever-shrinking domain: the gaps in human knowledge. These gaps will inherently never be closed altogether, but I think we're at a tipping point where the viability of religion as we've known it is no more. There will always be magical thinking, but never again will it hold absolute sway over most of the civilized world. It will be more a phase that people go through and some never get past, but it will not be the default.
Maybe because I actually believe what the Bible says and the rest just want a feel-good country-club to go to on Sunday morning?
Projection. Church IS a feel-good club. Comforting lies over hard truths.
Moderator cut: orphaned quoted post
Slavery was considered justifiable for thousands of years and freeing a slave was considered to be the sin of theft. We only eliminated slavery a scant century and a half ago, so it must still be morally justifiable and we are in error.
Universal suffrage was considered unthinkable for all of human history, and was overturned only a hundred years ago, so it must have been a mistake, too.
Perhaps while repenting of homosexuality we should also repent of freeing the slaves and giving women the vote.
Or maybe, just maybe, we humans are digging ourselves out of a very deep hole of ignorance and tribal thinking and learning to treat each other tolerantly and equally.
Last edited by Miss Blue; 03-18-2013 at 08:25 AM..
Until recent times a person in the Americas would not speak against Christianity and would strive to be seen as a "Good American Christian" Being christian in American was necessary if one was to be accepted as being a "True American" any views that seemed to be outside Christian teaching meant risking acceptance by family, friends and co-workers. Being Christian played a big part for a person's success in the community.
Dissension against Christianity was virtually impossible from the time of the "Holy Roman Empire" to the Christianizing of the Americas. The growth of Fundamentalist American Christianity in the 1900s has become the portal for the fall of organized denominations in North America.
From 13th Century Europe through the 20th century Christianity has been the dominating force over Europeans and Americans. It is probably because of the rapid rise of American evangelism that the door has opened for criticism of Christian denominations, which in turn has made it permissible to criticize Christianity as a whole.
When the Evangelists opened the door to condemn Catholicism and Main stream Protestant churches it opened the door to make criticism of Christianity acceptable. People were no longer afraid of openly disagreeing with the established clergy.
American Fundamentalist Evangelism ended Romes hold on Christianity. but it also divided Christianity and brought internal conflict. This has made it possible for anti-Christian sentiment to grow. People in America are no longer afraid to acknowledge they are not Christian. The same is probably occurring in Europe and the rest of the Christian nations as American Evangelists carry their proselytizing beyond the Americas. The long established denominations are being replaced by disorganized, emotion based short term flashes of worship that soon burn out and leave smoldering embers that destroy organized Christianity. The doors for criticism against Christianity have been opened by the very people that thought they were spreading Christianity.
But a sad part is this freedom to criticize has also allowed some to become anti-Christian to a hostile level. This is the barrier to Peace between believers and non-believers.
Just my opinion and probably was too wordy to make sense.
Excellent analysis, Wood. One of the many Evils in this world is the arrogance of those who believe that God NEEDS their efforts to JUDGE AND ENFORCE His Will (as THEY see it) on others. The presumptuousness and hubris necessary to consider oneself such an agent of God is monumental. If it eventually brings about a rejection of religious hegemony over the personal lives of people and a more beneficent belief in God . . . it will be a good thing in the end, Wood. Your non-fanatical brand of Islam is one such harbinger of the kind of good that is possible.
Well, we will get a lone the day they remove "the missions"
They have the agenda, not me. As an atheist I have no agenda. Taking over the world with your idea of what they should all believe makes you a bit of a stinka. lol
Will there ever be peace between the believers and non-believers?
Not as long as the believers and the n on believers feel that they have to control everything and force their belief on everyone else.
You may have found the solution.
Us Believers (Meaning all theists) have to come to the understanding that we can not force a person to believe. We should know that by now, heck we can't even get fellow theists to believe the same thing we believe.
Our highest level of arrogance is when we look at another person and say "You are going to Hell" The fact is none of us know who will, at best We only believe we know. The biggest insult is when we then look them in the eye and say "I am telling you this because I love you"
Us theists need to get off our horses allow people to accept full responsibility for their actions and most importantly make their own choices. We need to treat people that do not have the same views as us as adults and know they are capable of making their own choices. No matter how much we believe a person who believes different from us is doomed, we have to accept that is our belief not a verifiable fact.
If we can not get a person to desire to know about our beliefs by observing our daily lives, we probably are on the wrong path.
Just my opinion, I just noticed I am sounding as obnoxious as those I find to be obnoxious.
Will there ever be peace between the belivers and non-belivers?
Good question, when non-believers and believers learn to respect one another, we must all realize that no two of us are exactly alike and therefore we do not think alike. We must allow each individual to follow their own path as they travel through this life. We're all free to choose to believe or not believe how we wish and we must learn to respect that choice and until that time comes, I do not see peace between the two.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
