Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Alpha, I have noticed the same thing. A little scholarly debate is one thing, and obviously there's nothing wrong with being an atheist, any more than there's anything wrong with being agnostic, Jewish, Buddhist, Wiccan, Christian or whatever. Yet...when someone drives on and on and on about how there's no God...I don't know...it feels a little too passionate to just be a few posts to pass the time of day. You know? It feels to me like the person is trying to convince him or herself.
The reason I say this is that while I was grappling with my belief in/understanding of God (I still don't have the understanding part down), that's pretty much how I acted...driving at people about how wrong they were to believe in pretty much anything.
You know, not all Christian denominations believe the nation of Israel has anything to do with Christ's return. For instance, the Reformed (Presbyterian) churches could care less about Israel in relation to biblical prophecy.
So they could care less about Israel, I believe most of the Presbyterian churches could care less about the killing of the unborn by abortion either. So it's not like this group has secured the moral or Biblical high ground. It appears they are more political then Biblical anyway.
who will rid of us religion? why do most people somehow and in various ways seem alienated from god or a higher power? why is that many who don't believe in Jesus Christ seem to be angry about other people believing? if He is not real and never was then you have nothing to worry about and live as you will. but what if He was born of a virgin and did miracles and did die on a cross and rise again? what will you do if that is true? and...what about people's lives who have been radically transformed from believing in Him? just asking....
That's interesting, but what makes you think they're false prophets?
Sorry for such a delayed response.. in answer to your question.. because.. false prophets are included in the judgments against.. the leaders.. judges.. and priests.. who were turning their back on the law laid down in the scriptures.. and thinking up their own ideas of law.. just to benefit themselves. many of those in authority were abusing their positions.. in government.. the judicial system.. and organized religion....... Jesus came to set this straight.
And this still remains true.. down to this day.
-----
“And their rulers must go into exile. And I will cut of the judges from the midst of her. I shall not turn it back, on account of their rejecting the Law of God, and because they did not keep his own regulations; but after their lies, after which their forefathers had walked, kept making them wander.” - Amos 2.3
-
Revelation is concerned with these very same judgments going forth.. to battle against “the beast.” Against “the great harlot”.. the ones who are selling themselves.. for a price (meaning.. prostituting their spirits).
Revelation is a summary of all the preceding scriptures.. translated into a symbolic account.. which gives the presentation more power.
-----
“Her own head ones judge merely for a bribe, and her own priests instruct just for a price, and her own prophets practice divination simply for money; yet upon God they keep supporting themselves, saying: "Is not God in the midst of us? There will come upon us no calamity." Their hands are upon what is bad, to do it well; the ruler is asking for something, and the one who is judging does so for the reward, and the great one is speaking forth the craving of his soul, his very own; and they interweave it. Their best one is like a brier, their most upright one is worse than a thorn hedge.
The day of your watchmen, of your being given attention, must come.
Now will occur the confounding of them.” - Micah 3.11
From what I have heard.. the word “devil” means the deceiver.
In Revelation Jesus battles with the devil.. and casts it down from its position.. in the “high places” of the land.
Just as Moses (symbolically) parted the sea.. Jesus is separating good from evil… and truth from lies.. etc.
Which is why the stars.. (or as you rightly said.. “angels”).. which means the false prophets who are guiding us.. are cast down from the skies.. (or high places).
While the stars that remain... represent the true prophets (or angels).
That is how I would understand it..
-----
“And many false prophets will arise and mislead many..” - Matthew 24:11
"Here I am against the prophets of false dreams," is the utterance of God, "who relate them and cause my people to wander about because of their falsehoods and because of their boasting." "But I myself did not send them or command them. So they will by no means benefit this people," is the utterance of God.” - Jeremiah 23:32
“However, there also came to be false prophets among the people, as there will also be false teachers among you. These very ones will quietly bring in destructive sects and will disown even the owner that bought them, bringing speedy destruction upon themselves.”
“Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God, because many false prophets have gone forth into the world.” - 2Peter 2:1 & 1John 4:1
-
Last edited by accelerator; 04-10-2008 at 06:36 PM..
I believe that people will slowly evolve away from belief in a supreme being, but perhaps it is just what I see in my family. My grandparents were very religious and my parents less so. I was brought up in a strict Catholic environment, but moved away from my church in my twenties.
My children are agnostic at best, and all of these things also apply to my ex wifes family. Has anyone else noticed this pattern in the succeeding generations of your, or your spouse's families?
I hate to blow it for most of you, but religion is a man-made creation that will very soon be exposed for what it is - a counterintuitive, destructive, manipulative organization that has been feeding off of people's vulnerability and weakness for years.
It's fake, people! I suppose, myself and other non-believers ("atheist" is such a dirty word with so many negative connotations, especially in the US) really wouldn't really give a hoot about this issue if so many religious fundies stopped trying to pass legislation which benefitted their bogus bibically-backed agenda.
When will Americans realize (as most in nearly every other developed nation) that the notion of a man sitting up in the clouds watching every move and every thought you make is utterly ridiculous! It's absolutely astounding to me that someone can actually believe that a man was born of a virgin, performed a bunch of miracles, and then died, and rose again. Especially with zero evidence to support this viewpoint.
Yet, these same religious fundies will balk at repeatable, proveable, time tested scientific research. It just doesn't make any sense.
As I'm sure has been stated on these forums before, you can "choose" (such a favorite word of fundies) to believe whatever you want. It's when you use collective mass ignorance to your benefit to pass or not pass legislation which limit the right of individuals or practices you deem "immoral" that becomes the problem.
I tell ya, unless something changes, this country is headed for disaster.
REPLY: Atheism is a religion too. And that is the ONLY religion that is going to become extinct ; and that occurs the moment you close your eyes to this life then realize there is an afterlife and the personal loving Creator which atheists rejected all thier life. At that point, atheists become full fledged Creationists (albiet, too late).
I believe that people will slowly evolve away from belief in a supreme being, but perhaps it is just what I see in my family. My grandparents were very religious and my parents less so. I was brought up in a strict Catholic environment, but moved away from my church in my twenties.
My children are agnostic at best, and all of these things also apply to my ex wifes family. Has anyone else noticed this pattern in the succeeding generations of your, or your spouse's families?
Interesting point and one that I can confirm on my side too with my own family and other families as well. My great grandparents were very Catholic, my grandparents Catholic as well but not quite as rigid, my parents Catholic too but sometime around mid-life for them both they both started questioning the whole Catholic thing and ceased attending Catholic church - I was not even raised in the Catholic church but instead they took me to a Protestant church in town. Pretty mellow bunch but as a family we weren't really into it fully. I had some enjoyable times as a kid going but when I got older my parents let me decide what I wanted to do and I gradually drifted from it always hearing in my head that this stuff didn't make much sense to me. Now I am married to a Christian man and I'm seeking my own spirituality - we have a young son and can't agree on what to teach him. I see this stuff happening in other families I know too and I believe it has to partially do with families being so separated now. Back in the day of my great grandparents everyone lived within a few blocks of each other and were a tight family unit -nowadays we're all over the place. I have family scattered from coast to coast. Sad really.
Alpha, I have noticed the same thing. A little scholarly debate is one thing, and obviously there's nothing wrong with being an atheist, any more than there's anything wrong with being agnostic, Jewish, Buddhist, Wiccan, Christian or whatever. Yet...when someone drives on and on and on about how there's no God...I don't know...it feels a little too passionate to just be a few posts to pass the time of day. You know? It feels to me like the person is trying to convince him or herself.
The reason I say this is that while I was grappling with my belief in/understanding of God (I still don't have the understanding part down), that's pretty much how I acted...driving at people about how wrong they were to believe in pretty much anything.
Could be wrong...just my POV.
Just out of curiosity... While I understand what you and Alpha are both saying in regards of atheists trying to convince themselves of their non-belief why can't the same be said for people who profess in having a belief?? I mean... if we're saying that some atheists who spend a lot of time on a religion forum are "closet believers" then can't the same be said for believers as well in terms of them being "closet unbelievers"? It seems like it's taboo to suggest that someone may not actually believe in God although they profess to. Yet, it's almost like it's a common, well-used tactic to suggest that an Atheist actually does believe, especially if they spend a lot of time talking about non-believing? That doesn't really follow...
So from here on out... I guess it should be fair to say that any believer who professes his faith is actually a non-believer... Especially the really uppity, in-your-face ones. They're a bunch of hedonistic atheists!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
sorry been gone for awhile
