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Old 05-16-2013, 06:46 AM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA, now.
21,020 posts, read 19,379,197 times
Reputation: 23666

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Was Primitive Man's itty, bitty brain just scared?
"Ooo, God in sky mad...make earth shake...kill goat...maybe make happy and stop..."
"Ooo, throw human heart into volcano...maybe not burst hot rocks for another year..."

Or could the Creator of Galaxies, Himself Pure Love want little bitty men to kill goats
to appease "Him"...a Spirit of Infinite Love?

It doesn't even make sense...except that it has been placed into the Human
psyche for eons from campfire stories....

This doesn't lessen how wonderful Jesus was or his teachings or our love of our
Father...it increases our understanding to only love Him MORE!
Imo.

Talk amongst yourselves....

 
Old 05-16-2013, 09:46 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,088 posts, read 20,717,984 times
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The idea of sacrifice is remarkably common. Thus I tend to think of instinctive. Thus I tend to think of survival mechanism. But what survival expectation can there be in sacrifice? Well, it hits you pretty quickly.

Give up something so that you escape misfortune. In times of disease, famine, drought, war, earthquake, sacrifices were made to avert the anger of the gods. because that was the only explanation. Worse. misfortune was around all the time. You had to sacrifice a human before you began to build. You had to sacrifice an animal before travelling. You had to sacrifice before battle.

You had to sacrifice to ensure your kingly line, to keep the sun going, to get the wisdom of the gods. always this idea that you could not only avert disaster but get some benefit by giving something up - the more precious, the more effective.

Omens and astrological signs were eagerly scrooted to see whether the Outcomes would be favourable. Humankind has always had an urge to not only know how to please the gods and get them on yuor side, but to find out how they thought and worked and try to predict what they had planned for you through knowledge.

The offer of secret wisdom to allow you to control your fate was a powerful one and the occult or religious group offering its members obscure but tremendous benefits could exert a great hold over its members.

As we see today, there is a great advantage to those who believe that that fate, luck or a god is on their side.
 
Old 05-16-2013, 10:04 AM
 
19,942 posts, read 17,189,177 times
Reputation: 2017
You guys are missing a huge point. Unlike other religions, Christianity is the only one that tells us that God initiated the forgiveness--but paying the penalty himself. The other religions have sacrifices of bulls, goats, chickens, children....but only Christianity has God sacrificing himself.

Yes, it was God's idea. Beginning in Genesis 3 we see the first prophecy that tells us that God will redeem his people.
 
Old 05-16-2013, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
31,373 posts, read 20,181,167 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
You guys are missing a huge point. Unlike other religions, Christianity is the only one that tells us that God initiated the forgiveness--but paying the penalty himself. The other religions have sacrifices of bulls, goats, chickens, children....but only Christianity has God sacrificing himself.

Yes, it was God's idea. Beginning in Genesis 3 we see the first prophecy that tells us that God will redeem his people.
Your god also caused the sin for which he supposedly sacrificed himself. He started the whole mess. Only stands to reason he should atone for it.
 
Old 05-16-2013, 10:34 AM
 
19,942 posts, read 17,189,177 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
Your god also caused the sin for which he supposedly sacrificed himself.
He started the whole mess. Only stands to reason he should atone for it.
No, he didn't. Man is responsible for our own sin.
 
Old 05-16-2013, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
No, he didn't. Man is responsible for our own sin.
According to your book and convoluted reasoning.
 
Old 05-16-2013, 10:41 AM
 
19,942 posts, read 17,189,177 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
According to your book and convoluted reasoning.
I could say the same right back at ya. According to your own convoluted reasoning....
 
Old 05-16-2013, 10:51 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,088 posts, read 20,717,984 times
Reputation: 5930
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
You guys are missing a huge point. Unlike other religions, Christianity is the only one that tells us that God initiated the forgiveness--but paying the penalty himself. The other religions have sacrifices of bulls, goats, chickens, children....but only Christianity has God sacrificing himself.

Yes, it was God's idea. Beginning in Genesis 3 we see the first prophecy that tells us that God will redeem his people.
No, we don't miss that point at all. The blood sacrifice IS the point. The Jewish ritual sacrifice of animals became at some point, ihe reason why their messiah was crucified by Rome.

I don't know whether it was Peter who linked the floating of their messiah's spirit up to heaven to sit with God (with whom the messiah was not identical) with the need to forge a new covenant with God in order to redeem Israel, at that time under the rule of gentile unbelievers, or whether it was all Paul's own idea, that messiah Jesus by his obedience released man, by the shedding of his sacrificial blood, from the sin caused by Adam's disobedience. You don't need to take my word for it - read it yourself in Romans and after.

Even in the gospels, though the messiah is animated by the Holy spirit of God, he isn't god himself and God's spirit buggers off as soon as Jesus is stapled up. God isn't going to sacrifice anything. It is the poor old man -messiah whoi is the sacrifice.

Not even the idea that the sacrifice has to be sinless and created by God rather than born of Joseph actually makes the messiah God. It is a later Christian development post Constantine, I guess, that it is God himself who sacrifices himself, though three days later the body gets up and walks.

Where do you think God was during those three days? Lying unconscious in a tomb? No, He was at the controls, running the universe as he always had.

Think it through Vizza old chum and see how the blood sacrifice became -wwll the same thing, but dressed up in a lot of ectoplasm in order to make it look like God has sacrificed himself when in fact God sacrificed nothing - not even minor inconvenience.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 05-16-2013 at 11:10 AM..
 
Old 05-16-2013, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA, now.
21,020 posts, read 19,379,197 times
Reputation: 23666
Then we have Proverbs 21:2-3, RSV....my first Bible in Jan 2006...


"...but the Lord weighs the heart.
To do righteousness and justice
Is more acceptable to the
Lord than sacrifice."
 
Old 05-16-2013, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA, now.
21,020 posts, read 19,379,197 times
Reputation: 23666
I'm looking for this one in particular darn it...but anyway..
I'm sure to a handful of verses I know of, there may be 50 talking
about how great sacrifice is...but anyway...these are around...
Psalm 51:15-

O Lord, open thou my lips and my mouth
shall show forth thy praise.
For thou hast no delight in sacrfice; were
I to give a burnt offering, thou wouldst not be pleased.
The sacrifice acceptable to God is a broken spirit;
Broken and contrite heart,
O God, thou wilt not despise.
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