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Old 12-15-2019, 01:20 PM
 
22,007 posts, read 19,112,807 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
I think word "discard" is not quite what I did. I list the observations in textbooks and what I know and what I experience. I happily include holy books and what you know and your experiences.
I say happily because I really don't care about anything past being as open and honest as we can be. That is just best we have these days.
I think the system we are in, out to 2 light seconds, is better described as "alive" than "not alive".
That has some implications on what you are calling spirit, I think. I just think theist misinterpret that feedback loop as "spirit". that all.
Like how does your body respond to you being happy. How does your body respond to you being sad. Those kind of things are spirit to me.
but the physical body, and feelings like happy and sad, are not the same as spirit.

Letters and numbers are both squiggles on the page. there are even letters in mathematical equations. but numbers are different and distinct than letters. spirit is different and distinct from the physical and emotions.

saying numbers are the same as letters just demonstrates not knowing what numbers are and how they differ from letters. saying spirit is a physical response to emotions just demonstrates not knowing how spirit differs from feeling emotions in the body.
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Old 12-15-2019, 01:31 PM
 
28,432 posts, read 11,521,721 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
but the physical body, and feelings like happy and sad, are not the same as spirit.

Letters and numbers are both squiggles on the page. there are even letters in mathematical equations. but numbers are different and distinct than letters. spirit is different and distinct from the physical and emotions.

saying numbers are the same as letters just demonstrates not knowing what numbers are and how they differ from letters. saying spirit is a physical response to emotions just demonstrates not knowing how spirit differs from feeling emotions in the body.
we would have to agree on how to compare claims.

I use a mechanism, make predictions, and are repeatable as my standard.

what do you use?
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Old 12-15-2019, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,462 posts, read 24,044,107 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
but the physical body, and feelings like happy and sad, are not the same as spirit.

Letters and numbers are both squiggles on the page. there are even letters in mathematical equations. but numbers are different and distinct than letters. spirit is different and distinct from the physical and emotions.

saying numbers are the same as letters just demonstrates not knowing what numbers are and how they differ from letters. saying spirit is a physical response to emotions just demonstrates not knowing how spirit differs from feeling emotions in the body.
I have to agree with you here. Perhaps some would say that it's making too fine a point on something, but I think there is a distinction between "something spiritual" (is that how you are using it?) and something based on mere emotion (not that there's anything wrong with emotionality -- it's what makes us (some of us) human).
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Old 12-15-2019, 01:39 PM
 
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your cells react to what emotional state you are in. Good bad or neutral. To those cells they would think its something more but in actuality its just the system that immediately surrounds them.

to demonstrate how we can leave emotion out of out it assume the organism doesn't have emotion. Do the cells react to the surroundings?
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Old 12-15-2019, 01:40 PM
 
Location: USA
1,096 posts, read 415,092 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post

I use a mechanism, make predictions, and are repeatable as my standard.
Side question. I have seen where this word "repeatable" is used as a way to verify. But if something is repeatable is it evolving? If we lock into only what is repeatable don't we stop growing?
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Old 12-15-2019, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coffeemoments View Post
Side question. I have seen where this word "repeatable" is used as a way to verify. But if something is repeatable is it evolving? If we lock into only what is repeatable don't we stop growing?
Well, it is a basic part of scientific discovery. Is something a one-time phenomenon, or can it be re-created anytime by anyone?
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Old 12-15-2019, 01:45 PM
 
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Well, it is a basic part of scientific discovery. Is something a one-time phenomenon, or can it be re-created anytime by anyone?
Bur how does that become a standard by which to judge spirituality? I get it as it applies to science. But why spirit?
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Old 12-15-2019, 01:52 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coffeemoments View Post
Bur how does that become a standard by which to judge spirituality? I get it as it applies to science. But why spirit?
I'm not sure it does. I'm not sure that "spirituality" is measurable. I guess it would depend on how you were defining spirituality.

Or maybe it does. We certainly have repeatable reports of NDEs. Although I have a feeling that NDEs may differ depending on the culture one is from, thereby making it difficult to classify.

I know this may be an odd thing to bring in, but I was reading an article about Dean Martin yesterday, and it noted that both he and his mother died on christmas day. A 1 in 365 chances for that to happen. Is that a mere coincident?

Different tarot readers getting virtually the same result, or the same tarot reader getting the same result over time when asking the same questions.

So again, I think the big question is...(ahem)...maybe it's too big a question. Maybe we need to whittle the question down to something that can be tested.
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Old 12-15-2019, 01:53 PM
 
22,007 posts, read 19,112,807 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
we would have to agree on how to compare claims.
I use a mechanism, make predictions, and are repeatable as my standard.
what do you use?
here is a start:
develop the ability to identify your intuition
develop the skill to discern between your intuition and your other thoughts
be able to differentiate between intellect and intuition, both in your conceptual understanding, and also in practical application distinguishing between them.

collect data for your own use on what perceptions, information, knowing, and ideas are delivered to you by your intuition. Collect data also on how you respond to the intuitive information delivered to you, for instance, dismiss it, ignore it, discount it, call it something else, deny it, doesn't make sense. Collect data on outcomes related to your responses to intuition, i.e. turned out to be helpful, ignored it and wish i'd listened.

note your comfort level with, or resistance to, any of these steps. none of this has any value or usefulness to anyone except you yourself. It is not about proving anything to anyone else, or convincing anyone of anything. a person's relationship with spirit is their own first hand experience and participation. if a person has no interest or intention or desire to participate in that relationship, then that is their exercise of free choice.

the mechanism and the verifying are carried out by you and you alone. it requires participation.
it is a relationship. talking about a relationship is not the same as being in a relationship.

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 12-15-2019 at 02:06 PM..
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Old 12-15-2019, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,462 posts, read 24,044,107 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
here is a start:
develop the ability to identify your intuition
develop the skill to discern between your intuition and your other thoughts
be able to differentiate between intellect and intuition, both in your conceptual understanding, and also in practical application distinguishing between them.

collect data for your own use on what perceptions, information, knowing, and ideas are delivered to you by your intuition. Collect data also on how you respond to the intuitive information delivered to you, for instance, dismiss it, ignore it, discount it, call it something else, deny it, doesn't make sense. Collect data on outcomes related to your responses to intuition, i.e. turned out to be helpful, ignored it and wish i'd listened.

note your comfort level with, or resistance to, any of these steps.
Very interesting. That is what I have been trying to do with tarot. So far I am disappointed in my results, but am impressed by results of a few professional tarot readers.
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