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Yes, been there, done that ... it's nice to be absolved of having supportable positions about anything. Increasingly though we live in a world that rightly demands that assertions be independently substantiatable.
I will be elsewhere much longer than I will exist in this world.
Am I going to be concerned about what the world (that does not care about me) says - or Jesus Christ who I believe died for me?
Again - I will trust in the knowledge revealed to me.
I am sure your'e representative of most Christians, who have already made up their minds and will accept only evidence that appears to support their predetermined ideas.
We have "made up our minds" on the basis of 2,000 years of church history, biblical scholarship, and personal observation and experience (ours and others') -- pretty much the way that any sane person, including those who embrace the religion of materialistic scientism, makes up his mind about anything. I know few Christians who, if presented with irrefutable evidence that their faith was based upon an historical lie, would not reevaluate their beliefs. Paul said as much in 1 Corinthians 15. One aspect of belief that no nonbeliever can understand or appreciate is the personal experience of God working in one's life, which greatly bolsters the other bases for belief. While you may think you have "been there," I doubt very seriously that you have "done that."
As for the original post, this is old news. Atwill's book is several years old. What he will be doing in England is screening a film based on his book, not presenting a "new discovery." Forums like this are such a fountain of misinformation that it's quite comical. Since theology and biblical scholarship are two of my areas of longtime interest, I was surprised that I had never heard of "biblical scholar" Atwill. It appears that his book is just about all that he has published and that he has failed to make a ripple in the pool of genuine biblical scholarship. Atwill's conjecture reminds me very much of some of the efforts to prove that Shakespeare was an invention by a conspiratorial group of British aristocrats, or perhaps of the goofy "The Passover Plot" book that was all the rage several years ago. It makes for fun reading, and may earn Atwill a few shekels, but it is FANTASTICALLY implausible on the surface, contrary to the best scholarship, and supported by nothing but conjecture.
It's always quite humorous to me that those who accuse Christians of things like having "made up their minds" have invariably made up their own minds in the other direction -- and almost invariably without having spent a fraction of the time investigating the subject that I and lots of other believers have. The typical True Believer in materialistic scientism makes a Young Earth Christian Fundamentalist look like the soul of open-mindedness and flexibility in comparison.
Yes - anyone who is a true believer has the testimony of God within them.
In a world of uncertainty, it's good to know God and His Son.
Hopefully God will send the Holy Spirit your way so you can also understand and have eternal life.
And I hope your good deeds will save you from the fate one who believes in a false Messiah will face. Goes to show you can talk yourself into anything!
*note, find and replace for pretty much any religion.
I know few Christians who, if presented with irrefutable evidence that their faith was based upon an historical lie, would not reevaluate their beliefs.
From my experience in and out of Christianity, not so much. I think there are some that would. I think that most would appeal to their personal experience just as you do in the rest of your post. "My personal experience and that of millions of others can't be wrong" pretty much trumps all.
I was arguably fortunate to come from a Christian tradition that was actively suspicious of subjective personal experience (although their substitution of Bibliolatry for personal experience wasn't particularly effective IMO). It is one thing I took away from the faith that was somewhat useful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Venerable Bede
One aspect of belief that no nonbeliever can understand or appreciate is the personal experience of God working in one's life, which greatly bolsters the other bases for belief. While you may think you have "been there," I doubt very seriously that you have "done that."
It's okay, I'm used to people who don't know me make assumptions about me.
Everyone's experience of god is different (which tells you something right there) and mine was that of an abstraction that "bolstered" me very well until it started to leak. Leaky abstractions are no problem for some people and more power to them, but I was unable to ignore the leakage beyond a certain point. However, I was a practicing Christian for some thirty years, have a full year at Bible Institute with straight A's and so am more versed in theology (or at least Dallas Theological Seminary-flavored theology) and the Bible than most Christian laypersons much less most unbelievers. If that doesn't meet your "done that" test then probably nothing will.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Venerable Bede
As for the original post, this is old news. Atwill's book is several years old. What he will be doing in England is screening a film based on his book, not presenting a "new discovery."
Yes, that is my impression also. The implication of the marketing slime is that he has a smoking-gun document that is a confession of the Roman aristocracy. He has no such thing as far as I can see. He has a theory, which, if his book has been out for awhile, doesn't sound like it's set the world on fire or turned Christianity on its ear. It's sort of the inverse of my own argument that if Christianity was so effective, I'd expect to see people lined up around the block to get into church.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Venerable Bede
It's always quite humorous to me that those who accuse Christians of things like having "made up their minds" have invariably made up their own minds in the other direction -- and almost invariably without having spent a fraction of the time investigating the subject that I and lots of other believers have. The typical True Believer in materialistic scientism makes a Young Earth Christian Fundamentalist look like the soul of open-mindedness and flexibility in comparison.
I think you flatter yourself and you certainly flatter YEC's. In my experience unbelievers are convinced but have actual evidence to present.
Hopefully God will send the Holy Spirit your way so you can also understand and have eternal life.
John 5:39
Search the scriptures; for in them you think you have eternal life:
Interestingly, science claims energy can neither be created nor destroyed but then again they said in the beginning the universe exploded into the observable universe from ???, if it existed then it took up space so what was that space? Heaven?
"buy tickets" October 19th. get it ? the man is trying to make $.
this is not true history. Dan Browne type fiction is popular, sadly.
Just watch.. on October 20th, his "confessions" will be a sham
just like his book. Go to Amazon and see how many people have
read his book in the last year.. basically nobody. This guy is a
clown. Geez. Romans invented Jesus.. lol. ya, right.
Im Atheist, but am very highly skeptical of this claim.
Why would Roman aristocrats concoct a fable whos tenets undermine their own value system and ethos. It would be as if they planted a meme into the society that would lead to their own eventual demise.
Now were it some other group, say a group of Greek influened intellectuals, or some outcast or marginalized subgroup, then it would be more believable.
I suspect this hypothesis will have its 2 minutes of fame, then be forgotten quickly.
Last edited by TheArchitect; 10-09-2013 at 05:02 PM..
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