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Old 10-15-2013, 06:21 AM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
23,650 posts, read 12,119,490 times
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A few issues lately have got me questioning the line where religious freedom ends and the law begins.
When should a religious business owner be allowed to disregard the laws of a state on business owners?

There is the recent case of a Mennonite couple that refused to rent a hall to a same sex couple.
Religious group sues over same-sex marriage dispute

The same Mennonite couple sells and serves wine in their bistro, and rent the hall for receptions that include dancing, which I believe are no nos for Mennonites.

There is the Muslim cab drivers that refuse to allow people carrying alcohol, or that have service dogs into their cabs.
Muslim Cab Drivers Refuse to Transport Alcohol, and Dogs - ABC News

The Oregon bakery case.
Gresham bakery that refused to bake same-sex wedding cake closes shop | OregonLive.com

The Hobby Lobby case.
US wants Supreme Court to take up Hobby Lobby case - Businessweek


So, at what point does someone have to follow the laws of doing business? Can everyone just claim some religious belief as a "get out of jail free" card?
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Old 10-15-2013, 06:27 AM
bUU
 
Location: Florida
12,075 posts, read 9,471,602 times
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The hypocrisy regarding the Mennonite scenario you outlined actually doesn't even make a difference: If you want to offer your products and services to the public, then you are obligated to offer your products and services to everyone without bias on the basis of being a member of a class of people for which a pattern of discrimination has been established. Society isn't anarchy. Wherever opposing rights conflict, as in the cases you cited, society draws a line between, not those who prefer discrimination. It is okay to not like the public accommodation law. It is not okay to ignore or violate it.
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Old 10-19-2013, 05:33 AM
B87
 
Location: Surrey/London
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Laws of a country should always take priority over someone's religion. If they don't like the laws, they are always welcome to not do business there.
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Old 10-19-2013, 08:51 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 14,715,546 times
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There is a fine line between law and business practices.

What rights does a business owner have in the operation of his business? When does a business owner's personal choice slip from poor business practices to illegal?

If a person wanted to open a personally owned taxi service that caters only to Czechoslovakian speaking customers in Hog Eye, Arkansas, what is wrong with that? They might not make much money but they should have the right to operate a privately owned business that caters to only a specific customer base.

Let the laws of profit and loss be the determining factor when it comes to private business. As long as the product or service is legal and the business is wholly, privately owned with no government assistence, let them swim or sink on their own.

Before you complain about the above, read the next paragraph.

However, in terms of a public business that operates on any type of government subsidy or government benefits (ie: Loans, tax breaks, grants, etc) of any type, that is a different game and should come under full jurisdiction of the State and be open to all people.

(Disclaimer--Taxi's usually have to be franchised,licensed and approved by the city, which does place them under city control in those cities.)


On a personal basis, in addition to morality issues, I believe any business that discriminates is acting foolishly and deserves to loose money.
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Old 10-19-2013, 09:09 AM
 
Location: NJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post

If a person wanted to open a personally owned taxi service that caters only to Czechoslovakian speaking customers in Hog Eye, Arkansas, what is wrong with that? They might not make much money but they should have the right to operate a privately owned business that caters to only a specific customer base.
The issue isn't who you are catering to. It is who you are excluding. Should businesses be able to say no black people? No jewish people? No handicapped people?

Your example is one that is easy for people to take because lets face it, there is a good chance there are no Czechoslovakian speaking customers in Hog Eye, Arkansas. Now if it was a white only restaurant in the South that doesn't sit so well.
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Old 10-19-2013, 09:13 AM
 
Location: NJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post

(Disclaimer--Taxi's usually have to be franchised,licensed and approved by the city, which does place them under city control in those cities.)

Almost every business has some kind of licensing/regulations they must follow from the government. Restaurant have to have health inspections. Plumbers and Electricians may have to be licensed. Anyone operating in a building has to have it up to code. Where exactly are you drawing the line on what gets excluded?
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Old 10-19-2013, 09:56 AM
bUU
 
Location: Florida
12,075 posts, read 9,471,602 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manderly6 View Post
Where exactly are you drawing the line on what gets excluded?
And that's the problem: So many people are drawing that line wherever their personal preference, or more specifically in the context of this thread, their own personal beliefs and values, would be best served. It is rare for someone to set aside their own personal view and look at such matters from the standpoint of society as a whole, specifically in the best interest of peaceful coexistence protecting minority perspectives from "TofM".
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Old 10-19-2013, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 14,715,546 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manderly6 View Post
Almost every business has some kind of licensing/regulations they must follow from the government. Restaurant have to have health inspections. Plumbers and Electricians may have to be licensed. Anyone operating in a building has to have it up to code. Where exactly are you drawing the line on what gets excluded?
I do have trouble in seeing were the line is drawn.

There is a difference between private and public. I do know from having lived in the South is that you do have all white restaurants, called "Private Supper clubs"

How does one define a Private or Public business and what rights can a Private business have or need to have?

Can a church limit admittance to "Members Only"? What if a qualification for membership is skin color?

Is it legal to have a "Private Club" That only allows Catholics? I used to belong to the K of C every member was a practicing Catholic. We did not allow Protestants to join. Is that legal discrimination or illegal?
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Old 10-19-2013, 10:16 AM
 
3,438 posts, read 5,146,578 times
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Amazing that bars can still post a sign.............." we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone "
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Old 10-19-2013, 10:21 AM
 
3,438 posts, read 5,146,578 times
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seems liberals see nothing wrong with having meetings of.............." the BLACK congressional caucus"


-----------" Black police officers meetings"..........

A BLACK was interviewed on TV and asked if this was her first race. She replied ........" I ran previously in..........." the race for BLACK women "


Seems some segments of society don't want groups to be exclusive unless it is their group !
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