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In his book Autobiography of a Yogi, Sri Sri Paramhansa Yogananda characterizes the difference between the physical, astral, and causal planes, as per traditional Hindu philosophy. In this conception, when one dies the soul moves to the astral plane. There the result of past actions or karma is reaped.
Depending on your Karma you will either go to a higher astral planet or lower astral planet, we've all been there several times after dying in past lifes (imho) so references to heaven and hell are deeply ingrained in our subconscious mind.
This physical plane was created by satan (according to the spiritual path I chose to follow) After creating it, satan was supposed to merge again into God's cosmic consciousness, but he wanted preserve his individuality forever, so he designed a plan to attract god's children to this dimension, once here he would use all his resources to fool them and forget about their divine origin, he tricked Adam and Eve into misusing their powers of creation to manifest themselves in a physical body to have sexual intercourse, after they did this they were enslaved into the physical plane and the limitations of a physical body.
This is one of the reasons why most religious paths, advocate celibacy for monks or moderation for people who chose to live a honest family life, unfortunately we are humans and have weaknesses that satan exploits just like he did with adam and eve and that's why some religions have became corrupt over time.
This plane is dense, primitive and subject to the rules of duality, while the astral plane is much more subtle, advanced and with much less limitations, that's the reason of why the astral plane is called the creation of light together with the causal plane, and the physical plane is called the creation of darkness.
we don't visit the Astral plain at death only, we visit it inconsciously when we dream, that's why our dreams have few limitations, we can enter into this dimension while on the physical plane by meditation as well, advanced yogis enter into a deep meditation and relaxation state that allows them to do this.
to end the post I'll leave some information about the highest plane, the causal plane, we visit this plane when we sleep as well, but we do it in deep sleep when we can't remember what we dreamnt, this happens because this plane is so complex that it's imposible to remember it with our limited and mortal human consciousness.
Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami incorporates Theosophical ideas into the traditional Hindu Vedic cosmology, when he describes three worlds of existence (triloka) as Bhuloka or physical plane, Antarloka or the subtle or astral plane, and Sivaloka ("World of Siva") or the causal plane or Karanaloka, the world of the Gods and highly developed souls. About this latter he says "The causal plane is the world of light and blessedness, the highest of heavenly regions, extolled in the scriptures of all faiths. It is the foundation of existence, the source of visions, the point of conception, the apex of creation. The causal plane is the abode of Lord Siva and His entourage of Mahadevas and other highly evolved souls who exist in their own self-effulgent form--radiant bodies of centillions of quantum light particles."
I would just add to this thread that we are not given a lot of specifics about either heaven or hell, but we do have glimpses from the words of Jesus, and other places in scripture.
I agree kaykay... we don't really know exactly because we have not seen it. I believe in a literal firy hell, basically because the Bible refers to it this way and I don't have reason not to... but again, there are probably no words to describe it. I just don't go along with the thinking that "God is so kind and good that He could never allow people to go to a place of fire torture", and disbelieve in a firy hell for that reason alone. We really don't know what the "place of torment" will be, but whether it is fire, cold, loneliness... all of them would be "equal torment" as the "timeless state" goes on, and on, and on................................................ .................................................. .................................................. .........
Well you're right about one thing, some of us maybe surprised when we see who's there and who's not. But as I have said before, Romans 1:19-20 tells us that God has given all people an inner sense of what He requires, no one will be able to stand before Him and say I didn't know.
Can a woman accept a proposal of marriage from someone whom she has never met, or even heard of? Should she "know" that someone is out there who wants to claim her for their own, and know who they are? Should the man who makes the proposal threaten the woman's life, if she doesn't accept him? In a civilized society, we would answer that with a resounding "NO", yet in this same civilized society, we have no problem consigning a person to hell, (for eternity, no less), using the same reasoning. It still goes back to my earlier post, exactly how are people supposed to make a choice if they didn't know they had a choice to make? I can't recall any Christian, when they were very young, before they knew who Jesus was, (i.e. before they had heard about him), "knowing" what God requires.
Of course, there is also the other point I made, which is, who are we to say that the little guy didn't get to make a choice, when God himself, explains the situation to him? If a missionary never gets into the jungle to talk to this guy, then the only other option is that God must do the talking, else he couldn't be considered merciful, in my opinion. He simply brought the little guy into existence to live his mortal life here on earth, knowing that when he dies, he's headed to hell. And Paul tries to get God off the hook, by saying that people "know", so it's still their fault. I guess folks can take Paul's word for that if they're of a mind to, but I choose to believe that my Creator has better control over his creation than that.
Well you're right about one thing, some of us maybe surprised when we see who's there and who's not. But as I have said before, Romans 1:19-20 tells us that God has given all people an inner sense of what He requires, no one will be able to stand before Him and say I didn't know
.
All are guilty but all haven't heard about Jesus, who is our Savior. People cannot save themselves or be good enough for God through any efforts of their own, and so I do believe that they will be able to stand before Him and say that they didn't know ... Like Paul says, "How can they call upon Him whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him whom they have not heard and how shall they hear without a preacher?" Romans 10:14.
I believe that hell will be what people will experience when they are convicted of their sins and is also, for example, what people, nations, experience when God pronounces judgement on them. I believe that the heaven that Christians long for is where Jesus resides but I believe that we will experience heaven when are face to face with Him and reunited with Him. I don't believe that any kind of hell is eternal because Paul speaks of Jesus filling all things and this includes hell. This means that eventually anyone who is separated or alienated through sin or death will eventually be reunited in Him when all are eventually subjected to Him (1 Corin. 15, Ephesians 4:9-10, Ephesians 1:10, Romans 8:18-21.) God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 11-20-2007 at 06:47 PM..
Reason: clarification
If hell is for those who have chosen to reject Jesus as Savior, (which indicates a deliberate decision), then it seems it would be safe to say that Heaven's population will be larger than what many Christians think. Based on this premise, at the very least, all those folks who have never heard about him, (over all these thousands of years), should be in good shape, because they didn't even have a chance to make that deliberate, conscious decision to reject Christ, in the first place, because they weren't given that choice. (Kind of hard to make a choice, if you don't know what's on the menu. It would be like the head chef getting angry with the patron, and making him start washing dishes, because he made the wrong choice. Yes, I know, it's a bad analogy, but it's the same concept).
The little guy in the jungle that all the missionaries try so hard to reach, is actually probably better off not hearing the Gospel, otherwise he is placed in the quandry of having to make the right decision now, or else. This way he won't have to worry about whether he made the right decision, as to what religion to follow, so he won't go to hell, (alot would depend, after all, on who reached him first, as to whether he got it right). And if one is concerned about any loopholes for the little guy, (that he must accept Jesus, else he can't enter Heaven), don't worry, I'd bet that God will take care of it. All he has to do is tell him about Jesus, as he's taking his last breath, and I'd say it's a pretty good bet that the little guy will "get in".
All the Christian folks who believe that they are going to have a great deal of room in Heaven had best check up on their realestate options there, because I suspect they will be rather surprised.
Romans 1:20--For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse:
This verse tells us that all mankind has seen the evidence of a Creator because of His creation. This applies to those people who might live in the most remote part of the world and have never been told about God, as well as to those persons who live in the most civilized countries and have heard about God but have chosen to deny His existence. The evidence of God is in nature...period. This is why everyone on earth will be accountable as to whether they have believed and accepted God or rejected Him.
This is why everyone on earth will be accountable as to whether they have believed and accepted God or rejected Him.
How about those people who believe that there is a God, but don't know Jesus? There are many people who believe in a Higher Being or Power and they may worship accordingly, but they have never heard of Jesus. They see the evidence of God's creation and have not chosen to deny His existence. Do you believe that they will be in an eternal hell? God bless.
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I guess folks can take Paul's word for that if they're of a mind to, but I choose to believe that my Creator has better control over his creation than that.
Yes, I know, it's a bad analogy,
