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Old 10-25-2013, 12:01 PM
 
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I guess some things just come more naturally for some than others? I always thought it was something that was innate and the more you use it, the more easily it becomes to access it. But I guess also if people have never had any experiences that have allowed them to access that inner knowing, then they won't know it exists...

Nature vs. nurture thing I suppose...
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Old 10-25-2013, 12:07 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Royalite View Post
I guess some things just come more naturally for some than others? I always thought it was something that was innate and the more you use it, the more easily it becomes to access it. But I guess also if people have never had any experiences that have allowed them to access that inner knowing, then they won't know it exists...

Nature vs. nurture thing I suppose...
Nature plus nurture, more than versus. If there's nothing to nurture, there's no point to nurturing. Believe me, I've tried, if only out of curiosity and a desire to have some sense of what all the fuss is about.

I could regard this as unfortunate, I suppose, or I could simply consider it a strength that has its uses. I'm not sure that being overly impressed and influenced by one's subjective impressions is such a good adaptation in every way.
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Old 10-25-2013, 12:10 PM
 
1,765 posts, read 2,670,986 times
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Originally Posted by mordant View Post
Nature plus nurture, more than versus. If there's nothing to nurture, there's no point to nurturing. Believe me, I've tried, if only out of curiosity and a desire to have some sense of what all the fuss is about.

I could regard this as unfortunate, I suppose, or I could simply consider it a strength that has its uses. I'm not sure that being overly impressed and influenced by one's subjective impressions is such a good adaptation in every way.
True. I tend to think that people typically don't work hard on things that come naturally to them. At least I don't...
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Old 10-25-2013, 04:47 PM
 
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Look, I am not trying to make anyone mad. I have thoroughly studied and considered religion only to be mostly unimpressed and disappointed. I have also considered the fact that there may not be a GOD at all, and am currently kind of stuck in the middle.

I have no agenda to promote by bringing up this topic, only curious to hear the thoughts of others. I guess since I have had certain experiences, I did just assume that it was part of the human experience. Maybe some people are more in tuned to this sort of thing. I am only 32, and in my lifetime, I have had many experiences like this or otherwise that have persuaded me to belief that there is a GOD or some other sort of power affecting my everyday life.

I also didn't feel it was necessary to list a full page of personal stories to prove that I have had these experiences, but I could have. I will share just a couple.

At the age of 17, just as I was falling asleep one night, I had an extremely realistic dream/ almost vision of myself getting into a car accident. It was so weird that I actually woke up my brother and told him about it that night. Two days later I was in a collision almost identical to my dream.

Several years later something seemed to persuade my wife first, then myself, that we should take our family and go spend the evening visiting my younger brother who I hadn't seen in a couple of months. We did go see him and had a great time together. Not even a week later, he had a terrible accident and ended up dying suddenly and completely unexpectedly at the age of 24.

Many times I have had discussions with friends or co-workers about certain things or situations that could happen at home or at work, and how we would or should handle them, only to find myself in one of these very situations a couple of days later.

Maybe all of these are complete coincidences. Was just curious to hear the opinions of others who DON'T attribute EVERY little thing that happens to them to GOD controlling everything.
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Old 10-25-2013, 05:42 PM
Status: "Perking up." (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
30,778 posts, read 16,140,218 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TENNYOOPER View Post
Look, I am not trying to make anyone mad. I have thoroughly studied and considered religion only to be mostly unimpressed and disappointed. I have also considered the fact that there may not be a GOD at all, and am currently kind of stuck in the middle.

I have no agenda to promote by bringing up this topic, only curious to hear the thoughts of others. I guess since I have had certain experiences, I did just assume that it was part of the human experience. Maybe some people are more in tuned to this sort of thing. I am only 32, and in my lifetime, I have had many experiences like this or otherwise that have persuaded me to belief that there is a GOD or some other sort of power affecting my everyday life.

I also didn't feel it was necessary to list a full page of personal stories to prove that I have had these experiences, but I could have. I will share just a couple.

At the age of 17, just as I was falling asleep one night, I had an extremely realistic dream/ almost vision of myself getting into a car accident. It was so weird that I actually woke up my brother and told him about it that night. Two days later I was in a collision almost identical to my dream.

Several years later something seemed to persuade my wife first, then myself, that we should take our family and go spend the evening visiting my younger brother who I hadn't seen in a couple of months. We did go see him and had a great time together. Not even a week later, he had a terrible accident and ended up dying suddenly and completely unexpectedly at the age of 24.

Many times I have had discussions with friends or co-workers about certain things or situations that could happen at home or at work, and how we would or should handle them, only to find myself in one of these very situations a couple of days later.

Maybe all of these are complete coincidences. Was just curious to hear the opinions of others who DON'T attribute EVERY little thing that happens to them to GOD controlling everything.
Serendipity is one of my (non-admissable-to-scientists) pieces of evidence for a Creator/God.
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Old 10-25-2013, 05:52 PM
 
5,777 posts, read 2,556,364 times
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Originally Posted by TENNYOOPER View Post
First of all I want to say that I am not a Bible thumping, hellfire threatening religious fanatic. I am also not a big fan of and have found many problems and inconsistencies with many forms of organized religion. I have also discovered contradictions in a couple of holy books.

On the other hand, I have consistently had many experiences during my lifetime that would indicate that there is a higher power than myself or a GOD.

For the atheists who consider themselves serious and open-minded thinkers, have you ever experienced intuitions that are hard to explain? And how do you scientifically explain these things?

I have experienced so many. You just happen to notice something just in time, you happen to learn about something just before it happens to you, or something tells you not to do this or that and there is some kind of tragedy or disaster that you are able to avoid because of this.

If you have lived long enough you have had to have these kinds of experiences. Are these just major coincidences or are they instinct that is built into humans from evolution? Or is this something else?
It is my belief that humans do have instinct but how we respond to that instinct is more important. For many people, they have to be guided on how to act on their instinct. That is learned behavior from other humans and from learning from previous experiences.

I hope it does not sound like I am trying to take credit away from God. I am not. As I develop my knowledge on how to act on my instinct, I find myself heading back in the direction of believing in God. However, my reasons have nothing to do with my ability to protect myself using instinct.
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Old 10-25-2013, 07:06 PM
 
Location: NJ
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The thing with intuition and premonitions is you only remember those things that had a connection. The thousands of dreams you have that don't end up having any significance you don't remember. The feelings you have about various things don't stick with you when they turn out to not matter. So you remember the few that have. You are bound to have some that eventually make a connection. Kind of like a stopped clock is right twice a day.
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Old 10-26-2013, 04:41 AM
 
Location: Florida
21,149 posts, read 22,277,842 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TENNYOOPER View Post
have had many experiences like this or otherwise that have persuaded me to belief that there is a GOD or some other sort of power affecting my everyday life.



.
There are many things that exert power over your everyday life....all identified by science.
Do you ever think of them?
Would you ever consider saying a thankful prayer to gravity for keeping you from falling up a ladder?
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Old 10-26-2013, 06:12 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,309 posts, read 10,008,832 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TENNYOOPER View Post
Look, I am not trying to make anyone mad. I have thoroughly studied and considered religion only to be mostly unimpressed and disappointed. I have also considered the fact that there may not be a GOD at all, and am currently kind of stuck in the middle.

...

Maybe all of these are complete coincidences. Was just curious to hear the opinions of others who DON'T attribute EVERY little thing that happens to them to GOD controlling everything.
Tenny, you are not making me angry and it doesn't look to me like anyone else is angry. Your question is a good one and I think you've gotten pretty good responses from a non-theistic viewpoint.

I think it's important to bring awareness to our tendency to make unwarranted connections and to resist leaving the unexplained as it is until there is good reason to properly explain it. I think that for some people there is a fear that this will leach the wonder and mystery out of life and, for theists, I think it raises a concern of resistance to the so-called "still, small voice" of god. But I find plenty to groove on in life, I enjoy my loved ones, vocation and avocations, live in an area of great natural beauty, and do well enough to explore the word a bit. As for god, his existence is not validated by such things and we are not closing ourselves off to whatever gods there may be by taming our subjectivity in the service of the intellect which, supposedly, god gave us in the first place.
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Old 10-26-2013, 09:25 AM
 
13,439 posts, read 17,083,174 times
Reputation: 16152
Quote:
Originally Posted by TENNYOOPER View Post
First of all I want to say that I am not a Bible thumping, hellfire threatening religious fanatic. I am also not a big fan of and have found many problems and inconsistencies with many forms of organized religion. I have also discovered contradictions in a couple of holy books.

On the other hand, I have consistently had many experiences during my lifetime that would indicate that there is a higher power than myself or a GOD.

For the atheists who consider themselves serious and open-minded thinkers, have you ever experienced intuitions that are hard to explain? And how do you scientifically explain these things?

I have experienced so many. You just happen to notice something just in time, you happen to learn about something just before it happens to you, or something tells you not to do this or that and there is some kind of tragedy or disaster that you are able to avoid because of this.

If you have lived long enough you have had to have these kinds of experiences. Are these just major coincidences or are they instinct that is built into humans from evolution? Or is this something else?
Yes, I've had strong premonitions that have proved correct and I trust my intuitions...what's to explain?..I can't "scientifically" explain it anymore than a believer in a god can scientifically explain that...I think (like you said) they're instinctual, we all have this ability, but so many people don't listen or pay heed to those feelings., and some who do, would attribute it to a god (or goddess).
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