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"""Ryan Michael Flood August 8, 1967 - November 30, 2000
Ryan Michael Flood will be forever remembered as the 33 year old man who committed suicide inside of St Patrick's Old Cathedral in New York City. Flood was described as half Irish half Sicilian with slicked back brown hair, disctint ice blue eyes, light olive skin, tall(6 feet 2 inches) and thin with broad shoulders - Flood was very good looking and looked like more of a model from the outside, but was suffering greatly from paranoid schizophrenia. Flood was the father of a 7 year old boy, his ex girlfriend described him as a "caring father" but emotionally abusive boyfriend which is part of the reason they broke up. Flood was raised in a devout Catholic home in Brooklyn, New York and was arrested by the age of 14 for vandalizing cars and his mental illness grew worse with age. Flood could not keep a girlfriend or job, he was in and out of jail or mental hospitals and eventually grew dependent on heroin. Flood was suffering from a psychotic episode when he entered the famous Cathedral on a chilly November night with a 9MM handgun, Flood aimed the handgun at his head and demanded to speak to then Cardinal Egan -- As clergy attempted to dissuade and calm the incoherent man, Flood ranted that if he killed himself in a Catholic church that it would not be a sin and he would go to heaven and his mind would be healed, after a 10 minute long standoff, Flood shot himself in the head. His body was later blessed by the Cardinal Egan who described it as one of the most sad and disturbing moments of his tenure besides the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks."""
I found this on a catholic forum. How could they let a man who was obviously suffering from his own mind just off himself in CHURCH? I'm pretty sure atheists would have gave the man kindness and helped him.
It sounds to me like they tried to dissuade him but he was the guy with the gun. I am not going to accuse those Catholics of not caring. As an atheist I would have cared and tried my best too ... with less odds of success, because this guy's notion was that he needed to deal with his issues inside a Catholic framework. He wanted to talk to the Cardinal; I have no standing as an unbeliever to produce a Cardinal for him.
So, much as I poke at theists, this is not one of the times I'm going to do it, absent more detailed info showing some kind of unkindness or lack of desire to help -- I think a lot of things about Catholics but I do not think most of them are deliberate douchebags.
How could they let a man who was obviously suffering from his own mind just off himself in CHURCH? I'm pretty sure atheists would have gave the man kindness and helped him.
What in the world do you think they could have done that they didn't do?
Told the man that he could be helped in LIFE. That he did not have to kill himself to be healed.
Wow, you're reading a lot into a conversation you weren't even around to hear.
Quote:
Religion considers the mentally ill to be possessed.
So you're saying that "as clergy attempted to dissuade and calm the incoherent man," they told him he was possessed? And you got that from what part of the conversation?
Told the man that he could be helped in LIFE. That he did not have to kill himself to be healed. Religion considers the mentally ill to be possessed.
As Katz noted, you're assuming much without evidence. I'm quite certain those in attendance would do or say whatever they hoped might alleviate the man's agitation. That he killed himself despite their efforts does not mean they are to blame - it means his inner demons won the battle.
And for what it's worth, having been a Catholic and being surrounded by herds of them (big family), I'm quite certain none would think that man would be in hell. His hell was here.
as katz noted, you're assuming much without evidence. I'm quite certain those in attendance would do or say whatever they hoped might alleviate the man's agitation. That he killed himself despite their efforts does not mean they are to blame - it means his inner demons won the battle.
And for what it's worth, having been a catholic and being surrounded by herds of them (big family), i'm quite certain none would think that man would be in hell. His hell was here.
Therefore, objectively, suicide is a mortal sin. (Moreover, to help someone commit suicide is also a mortal sin.) Here though we must remember that for a sin to be mortal and cost someone salvation, the objective action (in this case the taking of one's own life) must be grave or serious matter; the person must have an informed intellect (know that this is wrong); and the person must give full consent of the will (intend to commit this action). In the case of suicide, a person may not have given full consent of the will. Fear, force, ignorance, habit, passion, and psychological problems can impede the exercise of the will so that a person may not be fully responsible or even responsible at all for an action. Here again the Catechism states, "Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide" (#2282). This qualification does not make suicide a right action in any circumstance; however, it does make us realize that the person may not be totally culpable for the action because of various circumstances or personal conditions.
Only God can read the depths of our soul. Only He knows how much we love Him and how responsible we are for our actions. We leave the judgment then to Him alone. The Catechism offers words of great hope: "We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to Him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives" (#2283). Therefore, we do offer the Mass for the repose of the soul of a suicide victim, invoking God's tender love and mercy, and His healing grace for the grieving loved ones.
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