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Old 11-24-2013, 01:45 AM
 
Location: California
32,230 posts, read 35,603,407 times
Reputation: 28097

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What I see it a meetup, a place for people to meet other people. In this case, other people who won't pressure you to convert or talk about their faith all the time. Yes, that does get tiring. Especially when you are a polite person and never tell anyone to shut up. Smile, nod, plot your getaway. It's a hell of a way to go through life. So while I can see the attraction I think the novelty would wear off really fast since NOT BELIEVING in something isn't really enough in common to guarantee a friendship. I'd need to be going to do something I enjoy doing, with people I enjoy doing it with. What are they doing? Not a whole lot. Plus, I don't want to be somewhere every Sunday at 9am or whatever.
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Old 11-24-2013, 08:21 PM
 
6,904 posts, read 4,345,727 times
Reputation: 678
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth View Post
I don't even know what your point is anyway? That we should go back to State-religions and State-slavery?

Plus, you're right, I made a mistake by taking your bait. I don't practice personality worship, so I really don't give a rats how the Founders were. I weigh the truth and my preferences on their own merits. I'm not here to go back to the 18 hundreds. The system they set up and what they purported themselves to have come to conclusions on is written, whether they were hypocrites is not really my problem but theirs.
My point was not an endorsement of a return to State Religions/Slavery.

My point was that pointing to those so-called "Founding Fathers" as people that created the concept of equality among all people, liberty, and the separation of Religion from Government...simply because they purported that is what they endorsed through some of what they spoke and wrote...is ignorant.

It is like saying Bernie Madoff really set up a system and had come to the conclusion that he wanted everyone to increase their holdings, prosper, and save for their future...because that is what he said and what he wrote in the company brochure!

The very reason this country BECAME so religious (and STILL is) is because of the incredible efforts made by those men to promote religion and inculcate the new society and government they were putting in place to replace the one they overthrew by genocidal force and swindle.
This country wasn't religious before they came along...the NDNs were not religious. So how did it become religious? By the relentless efforts of THOSE men, and those following to make it that way...THAT'S how.

You say that's "not really your problem, but theirs"...but that is not true.
I don't believe that anyone would be complaining about such heavy religious influence in the government and this society if it wasn't for what they did back then. So, the residual effects of what they did has now become our problem.
And what they "wrote" doesn't seem to have much power against it, except for dumb stuff like placement of some religious symbols and other insignificant trivia like that.
It's the placement of the INGRAINED RELIGIOUS ATTITUDE they promoted and instilled, and the derivative effects of that mindset, that is "your problem" now.
Those dudes weren't the vaccination against religion and oppression...they were the pandemic!
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Old 11-24-2013, 08:23 PM
 
537 posts, read 657,266 times
Reputation: 904
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
Atheism is a religion and some Atheists are as intolerant as the Taliban folk.
"If atheism is a religion, then OFF is a TV channel."
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Old 11-24-2013, 11:58 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
31,900 posts, read 33,300,623 times
Reputation: 13073
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
The problem with some atheists is that they think they know. It would be better to simply be an agnostic.
Know what? Atheists say that the existence of god is unknowable, so they do not believe that any gods exist...They do not say they know no gods exist....Atheism is not a religion, but it is based on a conclusion that there is no evidence to warrant belief in a deity.
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Old 11-25-2013, 12:38 AM
 
6,904 posts, read 4,345,727 times
Reputation: 678
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Know what? Atheists say that the existence of god is unknowable, so they do not believe that any gods exist...They do not say they know no gods exist....Atheism is not a religion, but it is based on a conclusion that there is no evidence to warrant belief in a deity.
EPIC FAIL!
Logical Fallacy!
Argument from Ignorance (argumentum ad ignorantiam)
Argument from silence (argumentum e silentio)

Any conclusion drawn (i.e.: "a position is not warranted") from a premise of "No evidence" does not meet the standards of "Pedigree Logic" and is a Logical Fallacy.

Please proffer a Logical argument for consideration...the one you put forth here isn't.
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Old 11-25-2013, 02:31 AM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,943 posts, read 5,109,730 times
Reputation: 1346
Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post
EPIC FAIL!
Logical Fallacy!
Argument from Ignorance (argumentum ad ignorantiam)
Argument from silence (argumentum e silentio)

Any conclusion drawn (i.e.: "a position is not warranted") from a premise of "No evidence" does not meet the standards of "Pedigree Logic" and is a Logical Fallacy.

Please proffer a Logical argument for consideration...the one you put forth here isn't.
So according to that logic: must sanspeur belief in psychics and bigfoot?
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Old 11-25-2013, 03:14 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
31,900 posts, read 33,300,623 times
Reputation: 13073
Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post
EPIC FAIL!
Logical Fallacy!
Argument from Ignorance (argumentum ad ignorantiam)
Argument from silence (argumentum e silentio)

Any conclusion drawn (i.e.: "a position is not warranted") from a premise of "No evidence" does not meet the standards of "Pedigree Logic" and is a Logical Fallacy.

Please proffer a Logical argument for consideration...the one you put forth here isn't.
Your accusations are logical fallacies, but my post is not....You really are getting confused these days....Oldtimers disease?.....Are you saying that you have evidence for the existence for god? If I were you, I'd submit such evidence to the James Randi foundation and collect the million bucks....There is probably no hurry, because there is little to no chance of anyone beating you to the prize. http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html
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Old 11-25-2013, 12:05 PM
 
6,904 posts, read 4,345,727 times
Reputation: 678
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth View Post
So according to that logic: must sanspeur belief in psychics and bigfoot?
No, he doesn't.

From a "Pure Logic" standpoint...all "no evidence" for the existence of "bigfoot", "leprechauns", "unicorns", "IPUs" (or any of the other childish fluff that is typically trotted out) can LOGICALLY do...is aid in the supposition & assumption that they do not exist.
"No evidence" cannot PROVE they don't exist...but that doesn't mean you must believe in them.

As a matter of fact...even though it is a faulty premise and part of Logical Fallacy "No evidence" is a good basis for "assumptions" and "suppositions" that have a good shot at coming to a true determination..
That is why I use and endorse Logical Fallacy.

The "Pedigree Logic" standard of "a perfectly valid major & minor premise, following an argument of flawless form, so you have a deductive guarantee of a true conclusion" is way too restrictive for day-to-day analysis of things...and near impossible to hold to in snap judgments.
By discounting or proscribing Logical Fallacy one is short-leashed in their ability to assess data and information. Things are not so "cut and dried" in this world.

As I'm sure you know...regardless of my "sand down the collar" offerings...I fully understand the "No evidence" application to the Atheist "Believe no God(s) to be Actually Existing" platform.
And as respects the literal existence of the religious deity genre of God(s)...it is a more more than decent basis for the assumption that they do not exist. And in that regard...it is mine as well.
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Old 11-25-2013, 01:38 PM
 
11,190 posts, read 7,440,867 times
Reputation: 2772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658
The problem with some atheists is that they think they know. It would be better to simply be an agnostic.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymax View Post
Couldn't the same be said of theists?
Better to be an agnostic,
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Old 11-25-2013, 01:41 PM
 
11,190 posts, read 7,440,867 times
Reputation: 2772
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Know what? Atheists say that the existence of god is unknowable, so they do not believe that any gods exist...
Not believing is an affirmative posture. In a sense is a belief system.

b]they do not believe that any gods exist[/b] is the same as saying they believe that gods do not exist.
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