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Old 11-26-2013, 02:36 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
31,900 posts, read 33,300,623 times
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No, reality is not the same as god, fairies, leprechauns and unicorns...Reality exists, and it's not god.
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Old 11-26-2013, 02:39 PM
 
44,544 posts, read 29,144,660 times
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Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
No, reality is not the same as god, fairies, leprechauns and unicorns...Reality exists, and it's not god.
Given what we DO know about it . . .You have no basis to say it is NOT God, sans . . . unless you know WHAT it is. Do you?
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Old 11-26-2013, 02:45 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
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I have even less reason to say it is god...Reality is just what is.
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Old 11-26-2013, 03:11 PM
 
Location: The backwoods of Pennsylvania ... unfortunately.
5,926 posts, read 3,616,171 times
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But what you and the other atheists fail to acknowledge when you use the puerile fairies, leprechauns and unicorns nonsense
It's hardly "nonsense" when that is precisely how we atheists feel. Atheism is a "belief system" only because so many people think there are actual gods out there. If believers were a much smaller demographic group and if religion didn't enjoy so many legal protections, there wouldn't even BE a specialized word or -ism for not believing in God. Non-belief would be the default position.

Quote:
So with God we ARE dealing with something known to exist but ineffable and largely inscrutable in its essentials. That is NOT the same thing as fairies, et al.
Yes, in fact, it IS the same thing. You make the claim that you KNOW God exists, and that's what I would expect a believer to say, but that isn't evidence.

Evidence should be fairly cut and dried ... something you can point to and say, "there it is," and everyone looking at it would see the same thing and interpret it the same way. Things that are "ineffable" and "inscrutable" almost by definition cannot be KNOWN. They can only be guessed at, interpreted, and speculated upon.

Atheists have been asking for evidence for ... how long now? No one has ever been able to produce anything that lends to the inescapable conclusion that God or a god of any kind exists. Obviously the standard of evidence is much higher for some than for others - but each to his or her own.

You do prove my point to some extent, though. It's the attitude that resembles this: "Of course fairies don't exist, that's just silly. But I KNOW that an all-powerful, omniscient, omnipotent being exists!"

A belief in gods, for some bizarre reason, is allowed to continue with extremely low evidential standards simply because the majority believe in gods, and that belief is merely a throwback to a much darker and more primitive time in human history. Society almost demands that we worship something or believe in some higher power, thus, many seek to justify that belief and see evidence everywhere.

It reminds me of how people act when they have a high school crush. Say there is a hot girl sitting next to you, and you really hope she likes you. Suddenly every stray glance in your direction, every time she bumps into you in a crowded hallway, every time she says hello, you are convinced ... truly convinced ... that she has the hots for you too. Except she supplied no real evidence that she is attracted to you, but your hope fills in the blanks.

Now, take the UFO phenomena. I'm not saying I believe in UFOs, but there is actual evidence. Photographs, video footage, trace evidence, numerous eyewitness accounts, the cageyness of the government, etc. In fact, there is FAR more evidence that aliens are visiting us than there is for God - and aliens aren't even supernatural or doing anything to break the laws of physics. YET .... if you say you believe in UFOs, you're likely to be laughed at, your job might even be in danger, and there are even cases where marriages were ruined simply for daring to believe in something so darned silly and stupid as aliens!

But if you believe in a supernatural, all-powerful, omniscient, omnipotent supreme being who creates universes with magic wands, well, that's different. Of COURSE we should believe in that because obviously supernatural beings with magical powers are far and away more likely than little green men ha ha ha!

Do you see what I mean, do you understand the strange dichotomy between what is real evidence and what is merely accepted as evidence?

I remember reading your posts before - and reading a crap-ton of links that you've posted in regards to your interpretation of what god is. I can respect your position, but I still think claiming to KNOW a god exists (and thus somehow different from fairies) is simply hanging your hat on a low standard of evidence.

By the way - if you believe in all-powerful deities, then it is somewhat disingenuous to say that fairies or leprachauns or aliens don't exist. After all, if the god you believe in is all-powerful, he could make fairies tomorrow and we could be overrun with them. Or maybe he already made fairies but they live underground, on and on and on. A belief in all-powerful entities opens the door to the world of "anything goes."

Take care.

Last edited by Shirina; 11-26-2013 at 03:16 PM.. Reason: I accidentally wrote the post in Swahili
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Old 11-26-2013, 04:43 PM
 
6,904 posts, read 4,345,727 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina View Post
Those who claim that atheism is a "belief" system have been duped by the bias and arrogance of religion.

There really is no more reason to believe in God than there is to believe in leprachauns and unicorns. In any other context, "belief" wouldn't enter into it. In fact, there wouldn't even be a word for non-belief in God just as there is no word for the non-belief of fairies. The reason for this is because 99.99% of us KNOW that fairies don't exist. We don't have to call it a "belief."

But because religion is so megalithic and massive, because it is so embedded into our culture, because it considers itself immune to skepticism and criticism, we must first invent a word for those who don't believe in gods (atheist) and then we must say they only BELIEVE no gods exist rather than they KNOW.

IF we were to invent a word tomorrow for fairy non-believers, odds are very good that the definition wouldn't talk about "belief" because the non-existence of fairies is common knowledge.

Therefore, calling atheism a "belief system" is merely pandering and genuflecting to religion. After all, we don't call KNOWING fairies don't exist a "belief system" ... unless you think they do exist.
Nothing new here...another bogus argument equating the belief that "GOD exists", to the existence of childish fluff like leprechauns, unicorns, and fairies...replete with the obligatory big dose of religion slam.

If Atheism (or unicorns, fairies, etc) had any real merit, IT would be the concept that's "so megalithic and massive" & "embedded into our culture". It DOESN'T...thus, it ISN'T.

Religion actually doesn't have any intrinsic "mojo"...it gets its "juice" by its association with the true source of the "mojo"...(cue Michael Buffer voice) the CHAAAAAAAM-PI-OOOOOOON___E-LEC-TIVE___CONNNNNNN-CEPT___OF___ALLLLLLL___TIIIIIIME~~~GOOOOOOD___EX-IIIIIIISTS!!!!!

On the other hand...the concept of Atheism is good for getting its adherents labeled as "The Most Hated".

It actually doesn't matter whether Atheism is a "belief system" or not. It's not only "The Concept of NOTHING"...It's a "NOTHING concept".
It's Atheism that equates best to leprechauns, unicorns, and fairies...as none of them have any real power or "game" on the World Stage.

Theism has ALWAYS crushed and trounced Atheism in the Arena of World Merit and Influence...and it always will. Anything else is moot...boosters backing the ever-losing "No GOD" paradigm, not withstanding.

Curiously...I don't hold religion in much regard...but I do understand The Way It Really Goes Down In This World...and Religion has it all over Atheism in any way that really matters.
When you spend thousands of years getting your butt handed to ya by something as pitiful as Religion...that's when you really know you need to rethink your game!
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Old 11-26-2013, 08:06 PM
 
6,343 posts, read 9,084,902 times
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Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
No, reality is not the same as god, fairies, leprechauns and unicorns...Reality exists, and it's not god.


So Jungian archetypes are completely invalid simply because you say so? Reality is GOD, so says the Tao te Ching, Gnostic Gospels, Upanishads etc. Go look at early posts where I quotes the exact texts (assuming you can understand them)

And again, the question no Dawkin's Witness wants to answer:

A chemical reaction in your brain is not love. It is a chemical reaction. I will stop using the Jungian archetype of GOD as a metaphor for ultimate reality when you cease referring to the chemical reaction in your brain as "love."

For your own benefit I would suggest you not ponder my question. I would hate for your head to hurt.
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Old 11-26-2013, 08:09 PM
 
6,343 posts, read 9,084,902 times
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Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
We get it...You do not like Dawkins or atheists...Do you think anyone cares?

Better question which you didn't answer:

Does Dawkins think any one gives a rats ***** what he thinks aside from his mindless followers? I comment on him, yes, but for the same reason I comment on Miley Cyrus: I enjoy mocking brainless celebrities and the simpletons who follow them.
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Old 11-26-2013, 09:36 PM
 
Location: NJ
17,579 posts, read 41,661,364 times
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Given what we DO know about it . . .You have no basis to say it is NOT God, sans . . . unless you know WHAT it is. Do you?
And you have no basis to say it is not the work of fairies and gnomes.
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Old 11-26-2013, 11:10 PM
 
6,904 posts, read 4,345,727 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manderly6 View Post
And you have no basis to say it is not the work of fairies and gnomes.
HEEEEEEEY! What's with Mystic getting all the good infantile Fairy, Leprechaun, Unicorn, Gnome spew?!

I'm relegated to commenting on the responses to him...just to get in on all the cool kiddie stuff!

I know he has been around longer than me, and has a much more substantial contribution to the board...but I do my very, very best to give you all a springboard for all that amusing ignorant stuff too!
So...Ya think you could break me off just a little crumb? I promise to feign extreme indignation and emotional trauma.

Also...y'all are slippin', Bigtime!
What happened to the Easter Bunny? And here we are "in season", and so few "Santa Claus" mentions! What a sad state of affairs...it's really disheartening!
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Old 11-26-2013, 11:30 PM
 
Location: NJ
17,579 posts, read 41,661,364 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post
What happened to the Easter Bunny? And here we are "in season", and so few "Santa Claus" mentions! What a sad state of affairs...it's really disheartening!
You don't believe in the Easter Bunny and Santa Clause? Heathen.
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