Frustratingly Split Down the Middle on Everything

[HighwayBlue]

Funnily enough, this past weekend a friend of a friend asked me directly what my religion is and what I believe (he was a little bit drunk), which is the first time anyone has asked so directly.

And I was stumped. I said it was "complicated" and that I'm "open to different ideas," and immediately cringed in my mind at my own words. But he was curious, so I told him I go to church sometimes.

Does going to church, and finding some very inspirational things in the Bible (including the story of Jesus), but disagreeing with some other basics in terms of theology, and sometimes doubting the entire concept of God and life after death, make me a Christian? I wager many would say I miss out on the 'saved' club. And while I enjoy going to my Episcopalian church, I can't say I fully feel that I belong there. Or anywhere really. In terms of a "yes or no" question, that just doesn't work for me. I don't see the world that way. Was Jesus a real person? I have read some credible research that says yes, and some credible research that says no. My favorite author, Anne Rice, has said that she has given up Christianity and religion, but maintains that all her research points that Jesus was a real person, and she believes in his divinity - and has written two fictional books on his life.

In terms of practices that really help me, it's meditation. Which I mostly learned from the Hindu-inspired temples I went to. And I also admire and strive for Buddhist philosophy when it comes to freeing your mind from stress and desires and seeking detachment. In fact, when I really started getting into it, I thought "finally, this is where I belong, I feel I've found what I was looking for." But now I can't say that's entirely true - though I still meditate and strive for those principles.

I have a strong-minded atheist friend with who I agree with on a lot of things, including many of the bad things people have done in the name of religion, and the way some people choose to blindly follow doctrine rather than think for themselves. Just so happens almost all of my close friends are atheists/agnostics actually. But I can not call myself an atheist, even on days I very much doubt everything.

[mythunderstood]

Originally Posted by HighwayBlue

Funnily enough, this past weekend a friend of a friend asked me directly what my religion is and what I believe (he was a little bit drunk), which is the first time anyone has asked so directly.

And I was stumped. I said it was "complicated" and that I'm "open to different ideas," and immediately cringed in my mind at my own words. But he was curious, so I told him I go to church sometimes.

Does going to church, and finding some very inspirational things in the Bible (including the story of Jesus), but disagreeing with some other basics in terms of theology, and sometimes doubting the entire concept of God and life after death, make me a Christian? I wager many would say I miss out on the 'saved' club. And while I enjoy going to my Episcopalian church, I can't say I fully feel that I belong there. Or anywhere really. In terms of a "yes or no" question, that just doesn't work for me. I don't see the world that way. Was Jesus a real person? I have read some credible research that says yes, and some credible research that says no. My favorite author, Anne Rice, has said that she has given up Christianity and religion, but maintains that all her research points that Jesus was a real person, and she believes in his divinity - and has written two fictional books on his life.

In terms of practices that really help me, it's meditation. Which I mostly learned from the Hindu-inspired temples I went to. And I also admire and strive for Buddhist philosophy when it comes to freeing your mind from stress and desires and seeking detachment. In fact, when I really started getting into it, I thought "finally, this is where I belong, I feel I've found what I was looking for." But now I can't say that's entirely true - though I still meditate and strive for those principles.

I have a strong-minded atheist friend with who I agree with on a lot of things, including many of the bad things people have done in the name of religion, and the way some people choose to blindly follow doctrine rather than think for themselves. Just so happens almost all of my close friends are atheists/agnostics actually. But I can not call myself an atheist, even on days I very much doubt everything.

No, going to church and finding inspirational things in the bible does not make you a christian. Many atheists go to church and find the bible inspirational! Out of all your posts, what is very telling is that you never once said that you believed a god did in fact exist. Wanting a god to exist, thinking a god "could" exist, believing that jesus was a real person.....these are beliefs that I hold, and I am an agnostic atheist!

You either believe in a god, or you don't. Being an atheist does not say anything about a person's willingness and desire to believe in a god or whether or not they think that gods could be "possible." It just describes their current state of (un)belief.

If you believed in god then you wouldn't believe the existence of god to be merely "possible", but an actuality. Believing in the possibility of god is not the same as believing god actually exists.

If someone asked the question "do you believe in god?", an atheist might respond with "no, not currently, but I don't discount the possibility that a god could exist. I just have not come across any evidence which has convinced me to believe in one."

If someone asked the question "do you believe in god?", a theist would respond with "yes".....period. It would not make sense to say "yes, but I believe that it is possible that a god could exist." A theist believes that a god does in fact exist, not just that gods are possible. A theist would be able to follow up the question with more information about the god that they believe in, etc. Someone who merely believes in the possibility that a god "could" exist, would not be able to do so because they do not in fact currently believe in any particular god.

Agnostics believe that it is impossible to "know" whether or not gods exist. However, this does not answer the question as to whether or not the agnostic has a belief in god. If an agnostic takes a leap of faith and decides to believe in god even though they admit they do not have knowledge of god, then they would be labeled a theist/deist. On the other hand, if the agnostic does not take this leap towards a belief in god, then they are by default "without a belief" in god, which makes them by definition an atheist. Most agnostics are atheists based on their lack of belief in god.

On the other side of the knowledge coin, there are gnostic or strong atheists who may believe/claim that there is no god, or god does not exist. This has a claim of knowledge (gnosis) tied to it, and is actually a claim made by very few atheists. On the other hand, a large percentage of theists are gnostic (not the same as Gnostic) because they make knowledge claims, claiming that they do indeed have "knowledge" (evidence/personal experience) of god.