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Old 11-22-2013, 10:57 AM
 
75 posts, read 63,044 times
Reputation: 12

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The concept of original sin:
İn islam, there is no concept of original sin. We believe that every baby that come to this World is pure. And every child is also free of sin until he/she comes to the age that he/she can understand the distinction of what is true and what is false. We also believe that no one inherit an other person’s sin. Every one is responsible for himself.
Lets see what quran says about adam and eve:
Surat ar araf: 19-25:
And "O Adam, dwell, you and your wife, in Paradise and eat from wherever you will but do not approach this tree, lest you be among the wrongdoers."
But Satan whispered to them to make apparent to them that which was concealed from them of their private parts. He said, "Your Lord did not forbid you this tree except that you become angels or become of the immortal."
And he swore [by Allah ] to them, "Indeed, I am to you from among the sincere advisors."
So he made them fall, through deception. And when they tasted of the tree, their private parts became apparent to them, and they began to fasten together over themselves from the leaves of Paradise. And their Lord called to them, "Did I not forbid you from that tree and tell you that Satan is to you a clear enemy?"
They said, "Our Lord, we have wronged ourselves, and if You do not forgive us and have mercy upon us, we will surely be among the losers."
[ Allah ] said, "Descend, being to one another enemies. And for you on the earth is a place of settlement and enjoyment for a time."
He said, "Therein you will live, and therein you will die, and from it you will be brought forth."

As we can see, allah is not actually angry with them for eating the fruit which was prohibited fort hem. Actually he says that, earth is a place of settlement and provision for a time. And one day he will call every person on earth to himself again(by death)
İn truth, sending the humans to earth was God’s intention from the start.
Surat al baqara from quran 30:
And [mention, O Muhammad], when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" Allah said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know."
And He taught Adam the names - all of them. Then He showed them to the angels and said, "Inform Me of the names of these, if you are truthful."
They said, "Exalted are You; we have no knowledge except what You have taught us. Indeed, it is You who is the Knowing, the Wise."
He said, "O Adam, inform them of their names." And when he had informed them of their names, He said, "Did I not tell you that I know the unseen [aspects] of the heavens and the earth? And I know what you reveal and what you have concealed."
And [mention] when We said to the angels, "Prostrate before Adam"; so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He refused and was arrogant and became of the disbelievers.
And We said, "O Adam, dwell, you and your wife, in Paradise and eat therefrom in [ease and] abundance from wherever you will. But do not approach this tree, lest you be among the wrongdoers."
But Satan caused them to slip out of it and removed them from that [condition] in which they had been. And We said, "Go down, [all of you], as enemies to one another, and you will have upon the earth a place of settlement and provision for a time."
Then Adam received from his Lord [some] words, and He accepted his repentance. Indeed, it is He who is the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful.
We said, "Go down from it, all of you. And when guidance comes to you from Me, whoever follows My guidance - there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve.

As we can see in above verses, god wanted to create a being who has freedom of choice, unlike the angels. And he wanted to send them to earth from the very start. When adam and eve ate the forbidden fruit, that was actually a sign that they are ready to choose between true and false. İt was not the most terrible sin in human history, like christians believe. As quran says, it was just a ‘’slip’’. We also believe that prophets are free of sin. Every possible sin of them are forgiven by Allah. Adam is also a prophet, so he is also free of sin, like all prophets.. As we can see the above verses of quran, allah comforted adam that guidance will come to them. Adam also receive some words from allah when he asked for forgiveness. These were probably words of comfort and mercy given from Allah to Adam and Eve. We can see that allah is not angry with them, like christians believe.
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Old 11-22-2013, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
3,040 posts, read 4,999,558 times
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In the Gospel of Mary, the disciples ask the Christ "What is the nature of sin" the Christ replied "There is no sin, only that in which you call sin, such as adultery." What this does is leave the concept of sin where it belongs, within the person themselves, then it becomes a moral issue and not a religious one.
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Old 11-22-2013, 11:26 AM
 
75 posts, read 63,044 times
Reputation: 12
Allah(god) is in posession of all the beautiful and noble names. The number of these names of god is infinite. Among that infinite names, Allah lets us know the 99 of them. These names are called ''Esma ul husna''; that means ''The names of the beautiful''. Everything in the universe(everything Allah has ever created) are actually extensions of one or several of these names. Among the ''created ones'' human is the most superior and honorable one. that is because ''human'' bears all the names of Allah, not just one or several. But the difference is that, these names are ''ultimate and infinite'' in
Allah, and ''limited'' in humans. For example: one of the names of Allah is ''The Shafii''. That means ''The one who gives a cure and healing. Allah is the ultimate and infinite cure giver. But a doctor is also ''shafii'' and a cure giver, but the doctor is limited in his cure giving ability. So the name ''Shafii'' is limited in doctor, unlike Allah.

As for the concept of evil and hell:

Because the universe and everything Allah has ever created are actually extensions of Allah's names, there is nothing as ''evil'' in truth. Because among Allah's names, there is no ''evil''. So the concept of evil as we know is actually ''absence'' All the evil things we know comes from ''not doing something'' or ''not being something'' Evil things do not have a hand in creation and construction of universe. Actually, evil is about destroying
or corrupting...

Among Allah's names, there is ''Adl''. That means ''The Just''. Humans are entrusted with a very great mission on earth, by Allah. That mission is to represent Allah on Earth, among other creations of Allah. İf some human defile that mission and bring bad things upon creations of Allah,that must bring some punishment. ''Adl(the just)'' name of Allah requires this punishment. Because of the enormity of importance of his mission on earth as a represantative of Allah, defiling that mission can cause big consequences.
For example: lets think a ruler entrusted his ships to a man. His duty is to protect the ships from fire. İf he defile his mission and simply go to sleep, ships may burn and the entire fleet may turn to ashes. Just by sleeping, a very big consequence has been brought. That is because the importance of the mission of man. And The ruler is right to punish this man beacause of his sleeping, the act was simple but intent of evil and consequence was bigger than the act. That is identical to humans, their missions and their reward and punishment. Being just requires that.

Moreover, Allah says in The Quran, repeatedly, that his grace and forgiveness has surpassed his wrath. So Allah intents to create ways for us to come back to him with a love of him in our hearts. Allah is not trying to punish us. Allah wants all of us to rise up and fullfill our potentials.

Also the life of heaven and life of hell actually begins while we are still living this life of earth. Because all the good feelings that we have are actually a little example or a litle model of the grace, joy and beauty that we have in heaven. And, all the bad feelings we have are examples of the life of hell...Because the biggest punishment is being in oblivion, to be restricted from the joy of being near to our creator and his loved ones . Once we see the real beauty and grace of Allah in the afterlife, there will not be a single person who feel not regretful. The real heaven is being with Allah and his loved servants forever, not some gardens or rivers(of course there are still gardens and rivers etc...)

Just like existence of the fire is not evil, but using the fire for bad things causes the ''evil'' and using the fire for good things causes ''good''; concept of ''evil'' in our lifes does not mean God is imperfect. That means we are imperfect because we use things that exists for evil and run from our duties and defile our misiions as God's representatives on earth...

There is no contradicition between hell and infinite mercy, true justice, and wisdom with its balance and absence of waste. Indeed mercy justice and wisdom requires hell's existence. Because the ones who defile other's rights must be punished. And a disbeliever would transgress the rights of The Names of Allah, denies all the creations' testimony to these divine names and violates their rights, denies these creations' very high and important appointments and commitments to these names and defile their rights, and denies that these cretions being the mirrors and manifestations of these names and deny the very purpose of the creation of universe(everything). Because Allah lets us know that one of the purposes of the creation of everything by Allah is this: Allah wants to watch and witness himself from his servants' and creatures' eyes... ( Of course Allah knows it better, i am just speaking by the knowledge given to me, which is little) This is why humans are very precious, because humans can witness Allah's glory and beauty and power on a highest level, higher than even the angels... And by disbelieving, these functions goes to waste, and so is a crime against purpose of creation...and also against the rights of other creations(like animals or inanimate objects etc...) and their purpose.

Of course, a person will be held responsible for believing or disbelieving if he/she has been given warnings and information of mind and heart...
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Old 11-22-2013, 11:44 AM
 
19,942 posts, read 17,184,745 times
Reputation: 2017
Quote:
Originally Posted by guen View Post
The concept of original sin:
İn islam, there is no concept of original sin. We believe that every baby that come to this World is pure. And every child is also free of sin until he/she comes to the age that he/she can understand the distinction of what is true and what is false. We also believe that no one inherit an other person’s sin. Every one is responsible for himself.
Lets see what quran says about adam and eve:
Surat ar araf: 19-25:
And "O Adam, dwell, you and your wife, in Paradise and eat from wherever you will but do not approach this tree, lest you be among the wrongdoers."
But Satan whispered to them to make apparent to them that which was concealed from them of their private parts. He said, "Your Lord did not forbid you this tree except that you become angels or become of the immortal."
And he swore [by Allah ] to them, "Indeed, I am to you from among the sincere advisors."
So he made them fall, through deception. And when they tasted of the tree, their private parts became apparent to them, and they began to fasten together over themselves from the leaves of Paradise. And their Lord called to them, "Did I not forbid you from that tree and tell you that Satan is to you a clear enemy?"
They said, "Our Lord, we have wronged ourselves, and if You do not forgive us and have mercy upon us, we will surely be among the losers."
[ Allah ] said, "Descend, being to one another enemies. And for you on the earth is a place of settlement and enjoyment for a time."
He said, "Therein you will live, and therein you will die, and from it you will be brought forth."

As we can see, allah is not actually angry with them for eating the fruit which was prohibited fort hem. Actually he says that, earth is a place of settlement and provision for a time. And one day he will call every person on earth to himself again(by death)
İn truth, sending the humans to earth was God’s intention from the start.
Surat al baqara from quran 30:
And [mention, O Muhammad], when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" Allah said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know."
And He taught Adam the names - all of them. Then He showed them to the angels and said, "Inform Me of the names of these, if you are truthful."
They said, "Exalted are You; we have no knowledge except what You have taught us. Indeed, it is You who is the Knowing, the Wise."
He said, "O Adam, inform them of their names." And when he had informed them of their names, He said, "Did I not tell you that I know the unseen [aspects] of the heavens and the earth? And I know what you reveal and what you have concealed."
And [mention] when We said to the angels, "Prostrate before Adam"; so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He refused and was arrogant and became of the disbelievers.
And We said, "O Adam, dwell, you and your wife, in Paradise and eat therefrom in [ease and] abundance from wherever you will. But do not approach this tree, lest you be among the wrongdoers."
But Satan caused them to slip out of it and removed them from that [condition] in which they had been. And We said, "Go down, [all of you], as enemies to one another, and you will have upon the earth a place of settlement and provision for a time."
Then Adam received from his Lord [some] words, and He accepted his repentance. Indeed, it is He who is the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful.
We said, "Go down from it, all of you. And when guidance comes to you from Me, whoever follows My guidance - there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve.

As we can see in above verses, god wanted to create a being who has freedom of choice, unlike the angels. And he wanted to send them to earth from the very start. When adam and eve ate the forbidden fruit, that was actually a sign that they are ready to choose between true and false. İt was not the most terrible sin in human history, like christians believe. As quran says, it was just a ‘’slip’’. We also believe that prophets are free of sin. Every possible sin of them are forgiven by Allah. Adam is also a prophet, so he is also free of sin, like all prophets.. As we can see the above verses of quran, allah comforted adam that guidance will come to them. Adam also receive some words from allah when he asked for forgiveness. These were probably words of comfort and mercy given from Allah to Adam and Eve. We can see that allah is not angry with them, like christians believe.
So have you done enough to know for sure you'll go to Paradise?
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Old 11-22-2013, 11:52 AM
 
75 posts, read 63,044 times
Reputation: 12
By prophet Muhammad's own words: If one would know that only one person will go to paradise, he should hope that he might be the one; and if one knows that only one person will go to hell, he should be afraid that he might be the one.

A muslim should be in between fear and hope.

Only Allah knows for sure who will go where...
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Old 11-22-2013, 11:53 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
3,040 posts, read 4,999,558 times
Reputation: 3422
Guen, enough with the cut and paste, do you want to discuss this topic or just post stuff from the Quran.
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Old 11-22-2013, 12:00 PM
 
19,942 posts, read 17,184,745 times
Reputation: 2017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terryj View Post
Guen, enough with the cut and paste, do you want to discuss this topic or just post stuff from the Quran.
Over the past year or so I've seen numerous Muslims post on these boards with a cut/paste method, and they don't appear to have a great grasp of English in order to carry on a discussion. Not to criticize the OP--if he doesn't know English that well, that's ok. It's not to suggest he/she isn't smart. My point is that he/she may not be interested in an actual discussion--it's kind of a post and run.
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Old 11-22-2013, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
31,373 posts, read 20,174,182 times
Reputation: 14070
Quote:
İn islam, there is no concept of original sin.
You got that part right.
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Old 11-22-2013, 12:10 PM
 
75 posts, read 63,044 times
Reputation: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Over the past year or so I've seen numerous Muslims post on these boards with a cut/paste method, and they don't appear to have a great grasp of English in order to carry on a discussion. Not to criticize the OP--if he doesn't know English that well, that's ok. It's not to suggest he/she isn't smart. My point is that he/she may not be interested in an actual discussion--it's kind of a post and run.
İ copied from a Word document, but originally i myself wrote it. İf it is against the rules, i am sorry...
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Old 11-22-2013, 12:32 PM
 
19,942 posts, read 17,184,745 times
Reputation: 2017
Quote:
Originally Posted by guen View Post
İ copied from a Word document, but originally i myself wrote it. İf it is against the rules, i am sorry...
No problem. I'm sorry if I misjudged you. I certainly am not suggesting you are wrong or in any way or dishonest in any way. My initial thought was that perhaps you just were not honestly interested in a discussion.
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