Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
First to define what I mean by Revealed Religion: A Revealed Religion is one where in the followers believe a message was delivered from a higher power/s, either directly from the higher power/s or indirectly through a medium of some sort, this medium could be a Seer, Prophet, or Super Natural Entity. That message then having a direct influence upon the actions and beliefs of the followers of that faith. All three Abrahamic belief systems are Revealed Religions.
Therefore, a Non-Revealed Religion: Is any belief system where in the followers do not claim to have gotten a message from their higher power/s.
My first question then is how do Non-Revealed Religions come to exist if no revelation takes place from a higher power? Upon what grounds are they founded, how do they start?
If you belong to such a Non-Revealed Religion your input is most welcome, as I am curious as to how these beliefs are thought to come to exist if no revelation takes place. I would also like to know why you hold your belief, what lead you to believe? I think some forms of Paganism could be classified as Non-Revealed, as Pagans I have spoken with don't claim their religion started with a divine message.
Please be respectful to each other.
May love and peace be with you all, Always.
Could you give an example of a non -revealed religion? Even Buddhism, arguably, has enlightenment hanging about to be accessed through meditation, just as Answers are given to the god -faithful through prayer.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 12-07-2013 at 04:41 AM..
Even Buddhism, arguably, has enlightenment hanging about to be accessed through meditation, just as Answers are given to the god -faithful through prayer.
In the sense that Buddhism doesn't claim divine revelation, it could be seen as "non-revealed", but on the other hand, it was human "revelation" from Buddha. All religions had a founder or founders, it is just a question of where the teaching was claimed to have come from -- whether the origination claim was honest or not.
But I imagine the OP is talking about religions claiming to be divinely revealed as "revealed" -- so that makes Buddhism non-revealed.
I don't think it's a useful distinction, and anyway, the whole concept of revelation implies that meaningful philosophies of living are somehow hidden and esoteric and ineffable and must be unearthed or discovered and then patiently taught and faithfully practiced before eventually, maybe, sort of, producing some kind of positive effect in one's life. I no longer have any patience for such notions, which also imply that it's not okay to just be what you are -- with self control and empathy for others, yes, but what in the heck is wrong with just being human?
Could you give an example of a non -revealed religion? Even Buddhism, arguably, has enlightenment hanging about to be accessed through meditation, just as Answers are given to the god -faithful through prayer.
Buddha only counts if you consider him a super natural entity such as a god or a spirit.
Or that his teachings came from one.
The main distinction is super natural revelation vs no super natural revelation.
Buddha only counts if you consider him a super natural entity such as a god or a spirit.
Or that his teachings came from one.
The main distinction is super natural revelation vs no super natural revelation.
There is more reasons for it to count than that: Buddha and people could be seen as a supergods in their real states or his teachings guided and sanctioned by God(s) such as by being an incarnation of the god of Wisdom, or perhaps of the Supreme Buddhist Supergod. Some Buddhists wish to think of their religion as supernatural too, maybe even extra-hyper-mega-supernatural.
For those Buddhists that need to believe in re-birth and enlightened gods, the Buddha's birth itself would be a revelation from the Sustaining God(s) of Theism, or perhaps from even on-higher than those Gods delude themselves to think is the end-all.
Superstitious Jains believes in similar ideas about the "above worldly" quality of their -human like any other- equality religion.
Obviously, there were many religions long before any claimed to be "revealed". Early human cultures contrived a system of gods inferred from the observation of phenomena that they could not explain by any apparent cause/effect.
Revealed religions came after wise and shrewd people (as they always are sure to do) discovered that the masses were gullible enough to accept their alleged "revelation" to account for what the gods "told" some member of the human community.
Revealed religions came after wise and shrewd people (as they always are sure to do) discovered that the masses were gullible enough to accept their alleged "revelation" to account for what the gods "told" some member of the human community.
I really do get revelations from my goddess, I am not trying to manipulate any one.
Obviously, there were many religions long before any claimed to be "revealed". Early human cultures contrived a system of gods inferred from the observation of phenomena that they could not explain by any apparent cause/effect.
Revealed religions came after wise and shrewd people (as they always are sure to do) discovered that the masses were gullible enough to accept their alleged "revelation" to account for what the gods "told" some member of the human community.
In a sense, all religions are "revealed", it's just a question of whether or not the origins are lost to antiquity. And that's partly a function of whether writing had even been invented or widely available or the source documents, if any, survived.
Animistic / pantheist belief-systems probably just evolved organically as each society built up its own mythology, and to the extent they had contact with neighboring societies, imitated each other's ideation and adapted it to their own environment. A desert tribe would not have been likely to have a fish-spirit or sea-spirit or a lake spirit or a bear spirit. But it might have at its borders observed a forest tribe with such concepts and adapted it to their own. In such cases, however it was started or modified, "revelation" was unwritten and fragmented and transmitted by oral tradition and family. Also in such religions there's an implicit understanding that one's spiritual life is a personal journey and there is no dogma as such to enforce or adhere to.
(There is also an intriguing argument with some circumstantial evidence to support it, that human minds used to be predominantly bicameral and people heard what we now regard as our inner dialog as auditory hallucinations and this is the origin of much of the animistic ideation, explains its apparent commonness, and also explains the transition to polytheism and ultimately monotheism).
The difference with written revelation is that, relatively speaking, everyone had the same explicit playbook. This seems like a huge advance, and perhaps it was, but in my view there is really no substitute for direct shared revelation and that has, oddly enough, apparently never happened. No group of people has produced an enduring, significant religion that involves a shared personal experience of god, or better yet, a direct line to god for each person, with each person getting non-conflicting information. Written revelation helps with consistency, but as the > 4,000 Christian denominations illustrate, it is far from a total solution.
So it turns out that different sub-groups, and to an extent each individual, has a somewhat different experience of god. This argues against the validity of divine revelation, written or otherwise -- particularly considering the supposedly eternal consequences of getting the wrong information from god.
I don't think a darn thing was "revealed" to Paul Twitchell who claimed to
bring back Eckankar...an ancient religion he claims...he also claims most everyone was an Eck Master...Rumi and Rumi's teacher...I mean most everybody.
It is a tax exempt Religion of Light and Sound.
He studied with Kirpal Singh...learned a bunch of stuff, sat at his desk and modernized
some things for the masses. Smart plagarist, con man, I give him credit.
Was L. Ron Huddard's ideas from some Divine source? I think not....people's bright ideas can turn into followings that turn into bonafide religions, for sure.
Oh, so to ans the op ques...this is how religions can start without Divine Revelation or Intervention...an idea pops into some crafty guy's head....an idea is not necessarily Divine...and sometimes it is.
Do I win the prize?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
