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It was God speaking of fathers and mothers and yes, He sees the future. Adam and Eve were cast out of the Garden as soon as they disobeyed God and had forbidden knowledge. They may not have even had sexual relations before the fall. They may have been as innocent children.
So you are saying that having sex made them guilty of something?
Not in this thread. Read any number of other threads in this forum or the Atheism & Agnosticism forum if you are truly interested.
And quit looking gift horses in the mouth. I am an unbeliever, but I fight fair. I'm not going to tell you this editorialization by Moses or whoever actually wrote Genesis is some kind of "gotcha" when it's not. You're welcome.
So you are saying that having sex made them guilty of something?
They were already guilty of disobeying God. God cast them out of the garden and punished them by making them work the land to live. Marital sex is allowed and is not a sin.
Not in this thread. Read any number of other threads in this forum or the Atheism & Agnosticism forum if you are truly interested.
And quit looking gift horses in the mouth. I am an unbeliever, but I fight fair. I'm not going to tell you this editorialization by Moses or whoever actually wrote Genesis is some kind of "gotcha" when it's not. You're welcome.
Your assessment of the Genesis writer(s) was quite correct. It was written centuries beyond any "Eden," or even beyond Moses as a way of explaining how people "suddenly" appeared on earth. Unfortunately, the apple had not hit Darwin (or Moses) on the head at that point. Oops, that was Newton! Just shows how true and/or mythical stories can be merged and mixed with completely different stories to reach improper conclusions about how things came about. The four authors (minimum) of Genesis did a lot of that.
I am a Christian (fairly liberal one), and I have appreciation for several of the agnostics/atheists that choose to keep their hands on the table before reaching across to slap us!. Choosing to be rude and superior is something we Christians prefer to maintain as a sole (soul) practice!
But a few of us delusionals believe some of you would make quite good Christians.
Please note I kept my hands on the table. But you made a fair and balanced post.
We get the idea, based on the numerous hare-brained goofs found in the story of creation, that its writers weren't the brightest bulbs in the room. Is this yet another one? I've never heard it mentioned even though it stands out like a sore thumb.
“This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called ‘woman,’
for she was taken out of man.â€
24 For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother and cleave unto his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Now how in creation did Adam know anything about fathers and mothers since he never had them?
And if he knew about sex, that's pretty obviously, then how come he and Eve never had any children while they were in the garden?
Adam didn't say "For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother . . . ." Moses, the author of the true Genesis account is the one who came to that conclusion.
Could it be Adam and Eve were in the garden only a month? Then the temptation came and they then got booted out?
We get the idea, based on the numerous hare-brained goofs found in the story of creation, that its writers weren't the brightest bulbs in the room. Is this yet another one? I've never heard it mentioned even though it stands out like a sore thumb.
Now how in creation did Adam know anything about fathers and mothers since he never had them?
And if he knew about sex, that's pretty obviously, then how come he and Eve never had any children while they were in the garden?
Putting on my theist apologist hat, I would point out that the man quotes a little stanza, which is curious enough as it implies that he knew exactly how woman was made. even though he was asleep at the time, which supposes that God explained everything to him, afterwards, prompting the little poem on the subject.
Then the comment about a man leaving his parents and 'cleaving' (the term can also mean separation ) to his wife (in my area, they both go to stay with the man's parents, because they can't afford a flat) can be put down to commentary by Moses, who supposedly wrote Genesis.
That is the conclusion Eusebius also comes to. Except on 'common sense'. Inasmuch as it is a reliable mental tool, it would suggest that Adam didn't recite, but the stanza was a creation of a later writer. That also suggests that Adam had no idea where his wife came from, as he was asleep. He either guesses, or God told him as much as he needed to know.
That suggests that neither Adam nor Moses knew that humans had evolved and that the woman came from the same place as he did, and had a navel for the same reason.
The other humans necessary to increase and multiply the human race without incest being involved also must have come from the same place as Adam and Eve.
So 'common sense' and indeed, its big brother, reason, would suggest that the Spare Rib story is no more than guesswork and is pretty ridiculous anyway. Thus the writer of Genesis was simply guessing, and adapting handy non biblical stories and hypotheses in order to help his guesses along.
The conclusion? Obviously, Genesis is not literally true. Evolution is the far better explanation.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 12-24-2013 at 07:43 AM..
I don't think that the Genesis writers goofed, I think that a lot of people have subsequently goofed when interpreting what was actually a really fine allegory for the passage of creatures from the status of animals to humans.
They nailed the prime human dilemma perfectly...the price of consciousness and all the marvelous things which that provides, is awareness of our mortality.
Adam and Eve are ignorant but perfectly happy...then they eat from the tree of knowledge and learn how to be unhappy. The tree of knowledge represents consciousness, Eden represented the blissful age before consciousness introduced its torments and angst. And there was no turning back, the pair are expelled from the Garden because they cannot unlearn what they have learned, they cannot stop being conscious and revert to animal like state of no awareness.
A clever story.....followed by centuries of foolish literal interpretations.
We get the idea, based on the numerous hare-brained goofs found in the story of creation, that its writers weren't the brightest bulbs in the room. Is this yet another one? I've never heard it mentioned even though it stands out like a sore thumb.
Now how in creation did Adam know anything about fathers and mothers since he never had them?
And if he knew about sex, that's pretty obviously, then how come he and Eve never had any children while they were in the garden?
Your assessment of the Genesis writer(s) was quite correct. It was written centuries beyond any "Eden," or even beyond Moses as a way of explaining how people "suddenly" appeared on earth. Unfortunately, the apple had not hit Darwin (or Moses) on the head at that point. Oops, that was Newton! Just shows how true and/or mythical stories can be merged and mixed with completely different stories to reach improper conclusions about how things came about. The four authors (minimum) of Genesis did a lot of that.
I am a Christian (fairly liberal one), and I have appreciation for several of the agnostics/atheists that choose to keep their hands on the table before reaching across to slap us!. Choosing to be rude and superior is something we Christians prefer to maintain as a sole (soul) practice!
But a few of us delusionals believe some of you would make quite good Christians.
Please note I kept my hands on the table. But you made a fair and balanced post.
Another wonderful post, Wardendresden. You've made many this year. Merry Christmas to you and your's.
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) to his wife (in my area, they both go to stay with the man's parents, because they can't afford a flat) can be put down to commentary by Moses, who supposedly wrote Genesis.
