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Good work thrill. I think Mr5150 just OD'd on processing your truth and passed out.
He's not used to it.
That would appear to be the case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azrael17
If he lied then Paul is a blasphemier.
Any one who blasphemies such things shall never be forgiven.
Nothing can save them from the ultimate sin of blasphemy.
Paul wrote half the New Testament, things such as Romans and Hebrews. and if he lied we know nothing he wrote has any value spiritually.
No, Paul is not a blasphemer. Trying to put down women and tweaking and jimmying the gospel a tad to conform to his personal beliefs and make it more palatable is not blasphemy. Remember: according to Paul, the end justifies the means. Rejecting the Holy Spirit is blasphemy according to Jesus.
Blaspheme of the Holy Spirit ,is attributing the work of the Holy Spirit to satan,
If you pay close attention to Jesus warning at the time of the teaching.
Paul did no do such a thing in his writings, however , he introduced something Jesus did not teach ,grace or unmerited favor ,this would imply God to be compromising with sin .
God does not compromise with sin, then, now, or ever.
Jesus taught repentance = rejecting self government and turning to God government via the Holy Spirit, Jesus provided His believers.
It is not about academics , knowing the bible does not make a christian .
It is about a relationship that can only happen when a person repents of their own govern, and desperately craves God's govern.
One desperately holding to Jesus and His word and come under Jesus Lordship, can license Him to do more in their life.
Making introduction to the Holy Spirit whom teaches God's will in Jesus stead. the same things Jesus taught and more, Just as He said He would.
Jesus said that we will give account for all our word even idle conversation.
That is how thoroughly God makes examination.
Paul Put down "the" law then made up his own laws , what's with that ?
Jesus holds the believer to the Law of the Father which is personal real time law/instruction.
Jesus said I only do those things My father shows me.
He wasn't flowing His own lead.
Neither did he fallow the same patterns over again ,dealing with every issue from God's perspective.
A wise child, asks his dad how he want's things done , and leaves room for a change in dad's plans.
A foolish child thinks he's got dad wired , and does things with out asking, based on past situations he is familiar with, often getting into trouble.
Thinking you can use scriptures to manipulate God ,like an incantation, is foolish,and disrespectful.
God deals with me according to our relationship , which means I may be instructed to do things a bit differently than some one else. the expectation is still obedience , not self govern.
According to Jesus we will be rewarded according to our performance . Works matter . but only works relative to obedience.
Mathew 7;21,22,23, and not because we have done miracles in his name with out His instruction.
Jesus explicitly taught a gospel based on belief on Him as Savior (too many verses to name) AND works (too many verses to name). James taught the same as Jesus. Paul comes along and says, "Faith alone saves you. Works are not necessary for salvation," completely turning Jesus' message on its head.
This is why Christians start to fzzzz and then their brains go up in smoke because their brains short-circuit not being able to reconcile two completely different gospels. Some dimwit way back came up with this half-baked compromise between the two where, "Yes we are saved by faith alone, but good works flow out of that faith, other wise that faith is a dead faith."
Huhhhh???
So let me understand this: we're saved by faith alone; check. But we must have good works, which are not necessary for salvation because it is faith alone which saves us, but it is a sign our faith is alive. But if we have no good works then Paul's philosophy of sole faith in Christ is a dead faith. What just happened to our salvation? Is it still there without good works, or like a dead horse is it good for nothing except glue?
I think MY brain just fzzzed and went up in smoke. That's why I try not to analyze this Biblical stuff too much. Too contradictory.
Last edited by thrillobyte; 12-28-2013 at 09:44 PM..
If he lied then Paul is a blasphemier.
Any one who blasphemies such things shall never be forgiven.
Nothing can save them from the ultimate sin of blasphemy.
Paul wrote half the New Testament, things such as Romans and Hebrews. and if he lied we know nothing he wrote has any value spiritually.
You're wrong about the blasphemy thing...Read what Yeshua said regarding blasphemy...
No, Paul is not a blasphemer. Trying to put down women and tweaking and jimmying the gospel a tad to conform to his personal beliefs and make it more palatable is not blasphemy. Remember: according to Paul, the end justifies the means. Rejecting the Holy Spirit is blasphemy according to Jesus.
In context, rejecting the Spirit of HaShem is not blasphemy, but attributing evil to HaShem's Spirit is...Re-read the passage...
So let me understand this: we're saved by faith alone; check. But we must have good works, which are not necessary for salvation because it is faith alone which saves us, but it is a sign our faith is alive. But if we have no good works then Paul's philosophy of sole faith in Christ is a dead faith. What just happened to our salvation? Is it still there without good works, or like a dead horse is it good for nothing except glue?
I think MY brain just fzzzed and went up in smoke. That's why I try not to analyze this Biblical stuff too much. Too contradictory.
In my experience, not too many fundamentalists short-circuit over this. It's treated as a paradoxical truth, and it actually isn't that much of a stretch if you're willing to look at it that way. In most fundamentalist congregations there is an emphasis on the Pauline version of the gospel and Jesus is seen as pandering more to legalistic Jewish sensibilities about works -- but his offering of the Kingdom to its "rightful" heirs was rejected. There are some of the rationalizations, anyway -- there are others, such as the hyperdispensationalist doctrine that would actually put the early church in a different "divine economy" than the ministry of Jesus, and from the church of today, which no longer sees (or needs) "signs and wonders".
If all of this seems rather baroque and a lot of work to get around the conflict, it's because it is. It's just that the average butt in the pew doesn't seem to trouble themselves about it that much. They leave it to their theologians to work out the gnarly details.
So in summation, yes, the usual party line is: we're saved by grace alone through faith, but if we're truly saved, it will result in the indwelling holy spirit transforming our lives and producing good works. The works are evidence of salvation, not the means of salvation. This allows them to play both sides of the fence just fine.
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