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Why not? I am honestly interested in this, as I find it difficult to understand.
If you are not religious, presumably there is no dogma you follow, regular church attendance, or any similar thing. If this is true, why do you find it difficult to say that there is no god?
Because I do not gain anything from saying it or believing it.
Perhaps, Arequipa. For me personally, having no religion may be the end road instead of unbelief. I can't bring myself to say there is no God.
And I cannot bring myself to say there is a god, it is just such an irrational concept, devoid of any evidence to prove otherwise. This is all inclusive and includes all of the man made gods, demons, devils and whatever else scares people.
And I cannot bring myself to say there is a god, it is just such an irrational concept, devoid of any evidence to prove otherwise. This is all inclusive and includes all of the man made gods, demons, devils and whatever else scares people.
I can understand this. I will add that I do not teach about God to my daughter. Not yet, anyway. I guess that is my second reason for coming here. I want to approach this subject differently with her and it does seem that the route I am taking would be more of an atheist's approach.
Perhaps, Arequipa. For me personally, having no religion may be the end road instead of unbelief. I can't bring myself to say there is no God.
I wouldn't ask that. What I would ask is whether you can bring yourself to say that there is, and if you say 'yes', I would ask how you know. And if you say probably, i would ask for why you think it probable.
You see, this 'I can't bring myself to say there is no God' is a reverse- side misrepresentation of the atheist position (I don't blame you, as atheists themselves don't always know what it is - Dawkins is even so confused he can't bring himself to say he is atheist - which in fact he is) which is that there is no good reason to believe that a god (including 'God') exists, NOT that we know for certain that the cannot possibly be one.
P.s, of course we have some people saying 'There is no God' or as near as dammit. This is a position that is strictly - speaking not logically tenable, because we cannot make such a definite statement as it would be (as theist so love to say) claiming to know everything/have looked everywhere in the universe.
The same thing applies to belief in fiery dragons (1) fairies and leprechauns. Strict logic means that we cannot claim to know there are none, but to say there are none would not be challenged in the normal way. God -belief is similar, except that a lot of people believe in it.
There is also the semantic business of what is meant by 'God'. It is easy to be tripped up by showing up the absurdities of the bible only to find out that the believer is talking about a creator who is nothing to do with the appalling thug of the OT.
(1) people will stoop to such levels to scrape a point that I have to exclude Komodo ones
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 01-12-2014 at 05:35 AM..
I wouldn't ask that. What I would ask is whether you can bring yourself to say that there is, and if you say 'yes', I would ask how you know. And if you say probably, i would ask for why you think it probable.
You see, this 'I can't bring myself to say there is no God' is a reverse- side misrepresentation of the atheist position (I don't blame you, as atheists themselves don't always know what it is - Dawkins is even so confused he can't bring himself to say he is atheist - which in fact he is) which is that there is no good reason to believe that a god (including 'God') exists, NOT that we know for certain that the cannot possibly be one.
P.s, of course we have some people saying 'There is no God' or as near as dammit. This is a position that is strictly - speaking not logically tenable, because we cannot make such a definite statement as it would be (as theist so love to say) claiming to know everything/have looked everywhere in the universe.
The same thing applies to belief in fiery dragons (1) fairies and leprechauns. Strict logic means that we cannot claim to know there are none, but to say there are none would not be challenged in the normal way. God -belief is similar, except that a lot of people believe in it.
There is also the semantic business of what is meant by 'God'. It is easy to be tripped up by showing up the absurdities of the bible only to find out that the believer is talking about a creator who is nothing to do with the appalling thug of the OT.
(1) people will stoop to such levels to scrape a point that I have to exclude Komodo ones
Arequipa, I don't think I can answer that question without sounding like a confused person but it seems I am not the only one. You make it sound like I am a closet atheist.
I think to answer this honestly I would have to think about the time my daughter asked me about God. She didn't get the idea from me. I did tell her He is like the unicorns, a fantasy. In her mind, fantasy is something that we wish was true but is probably not. So I guess there is my answer.
I truly do believe I cannot pass on my belief to her and to do so would undo everything I have learned, which is something I received after asking God for knowledge about what is right and what is wrong. It made me independent from God, not more dependent on him. I realize I may come across as an ungrateful, know-it-all.
Closet atheist? I suppose anyone who start to question their religion is on the slippery slope to atheism. It has happened; often. On the other hand, some people reason there way to a more convincing religious belief, and dispose of worrisome problems.
I am fine with that. I would not even have mentioned the matter were it not that the 'I can't bring myself to say there is no God' (which smacked of an implied rider 'like you atheists do') required some comment.
As to questions, they are for the individual. You can put them out of your mind, work it out for yourself, talk to other God -believers, or discuss it generally with the Faithful and the goddless, alike, but then we goddless can put some pretty bothersome questions.
It is entirely up to the individual how they handle it.
As to confusion, I have been there, done that and got the hat with the bouncy springs with plastic flowers dangling from it to prove it. Confusion is to be expected. Discussion can sort confusion.
I am fine with that. I would not even have mentioned the matter were it not that the 'I can't bring myself to say there is no God' (which smacked of an implied rider 'like you atheists do') required some comment.
.
Okay, I understand. No, I don't compare myself to atheists in the sense that I think I am coming from a more "knowing" perspective. I have learned too much from this group here. I guess that is the risk I take for making topics very personal.
I've spent the last 6 months on the atheist/agnostic forum and the S and P forums witnessing to atheists. I will never get that time back. NOTHING gets through to them. They WILL NOT accept any scripture or verse from the Bible. Eliminating the big bang theory as the creation of the universe didn't work either. They want evidence of God other than the fact that ALL CREATION is evidence of a creator. They will not allow anything into their mind or heart concerning God.
As a Christian, how would you tell the atheists here that God is real? I give up.
It's like this:
believer: "There's a god(s)
skeptic: "I don't take your word on that."
believer: "But it's true!"
skeptic: "How do you know?"
believer: "Because someone told me so."
lather, rinse, repeat
............................
There are literally hundreds of gods, according to believers of assorted faiths.
I say you and I are both atheists. I just reject one more god than you do.
There are literally hundreds of gods, according to believers of assorted faiths.
I say you and I are both atheists. I just reject one more god than you do.
That is an interesting way of looking at it. It is true that I am more likely to reject a Hindu god than a Christian god. I am sure that statement would be switched around if I was raised learning Hinduism.
Okay, I understand. No, I don't compare myself to atheists in the sense that I think I am coming from a more "knowing" perspective. I have learned too much from this group here. I guess that is the risk I take for making topics very personal.
I much prefer mutual understanding to mutual recriminations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skoro
It's like this:
believer: "There's a god(s)
skeptic: "I don't take your word on that."
believer: "But it's true!"
skeptic: "How do you know?"
believer: "Because someone told me so."
lather, rinse, repeat
............................
There are literally hundreds of gods, according to believers of assorted faiths.
I say you and I are both atheists. I just reject one more god than you do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elyn02
That is an interesting way of looking at it. It is true that I am more likely to reject a Hindu god than a Christian god. I am sure that statement would be switched around if I was raised learning Hinduism.
Better than the other one where 'Mary' was played by a debt -collector's minder.
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How can atheists know that God is real?
