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Old 01-08-2014, 10:53 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,088 posts, read 20,723,660 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
what a bunch of posers. It's sad when atheists try to be clever.
If they make their point stick, either by having their statue put up or the christian monument taken down, I'd say they were pretty clever, and the only sad ones would be the Christians, thwarted yet again in their Christian domination agenda.
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Old 01-08-2014, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 24,122,692 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
what a bunch of posers. It's sad when atheists try to be clever.
Even if they were posers, they would be posing as creations of the Christian mythology, Satan was not invented by, nor is sustained by, atheists.
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Old 01-08-2014, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
31,373 posts, read 20,184,822 times
Reputation: 14070
Quote:
Originally Posted by weltschmerz View Post
This is the statue they want to put up. A depiction of Baphomet. I like it.



The howling has begun. Some people are claiming that only real religions should be represented, not made-up ones.
I find that really hysterical, in light of the fact that they're all made up.
I wonder how big the statue of Lord Ganesha will be?
They can call it the Garden of Religious Freedoms and make it a tourist attraction.
Brilliant idea!
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Old 01-08-2014, 12:20 PM
 
18,250 posts, read 16,920,340 times
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For mensaguy:

Yes, it was.
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Old 01-08-2014, 12:56 PM
 
Location: West Virginia
16,673 posts, read 15,672,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
As long as the ACLU sues to have it removed (should it be installed) I'm cool with it.

The problem will be if the OK folk allow the Satanic monument to be built then the ACLU will have a hard time justifying their case against the privately funded 10 Commandment monument.

Go for it, this Christian says. Yea for the marketplace of ideas!
I would assume that the ACLU would have the same problem with the Satanists and it does with any other religion, whether it be Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, or Islam.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OyOyIn8 View Post
Is Oklahoma North Korea or America?!

BTW put the 10 commandments statue in a synagogue, not state house.
What does this mean? Korea or America? Huh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
what a bunch of posers. It's sad when atheists try to be clever.
What atheists? The ACLU (not atheists) filed the lawsuit. Satanists (not atheists) proposed this statue. Who are these atheists you just brought into the conversation? The OK legislature?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Even if they were posers, they would be posing as creations of the Christian mythology, Satan was not invented by, nor is sustained by, atheists.
Satanism would (by definition) have to be a derivative of Christianity.
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Old 01-08-2014, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,390 posts, read 11,604,899 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
Brilliant idea!
I second that!
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Old 01-08-2014, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,390 posts, read 11,604,899 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
what a bunch of posers. It's sad when atheists try to be clever.
I'm sure Christians would be more upset if it were a Dawkins statue then Baphomet. It probably wasn't atheists. But, you give me an idea.
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Old 01-08-2014, 02:48 PM
 
32,516 posts, read 37,177,253 times
Reputation: 32581
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
It's sad when atheists try to be clever.
Judging by the posts of the atheists on this board I'd say most of them are well educated. Most probably have more of an education than you have as a pastor. (You've never revealed how much education you actually have so all I can go with is a comparison of posts.) Most are intelligent enough to have questioned what they've been told about religion. Lots of very creative atheists in this world.

Though I can't decide if you think they're 'trying to be clever' (no - many ARE clever) because of your lack of exposure to the world beyond your church or your lack of acceptance of people who don't share your mindset mixed with one of your usual put-downs. If I had to put money on it I'd say it's the latter.

Last edited by DewDropInn; 01-08-2014 at 03:00 PM..
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Old 01-25-2014, 11:39 PM
 
3,943 posts, read 6,374,256 times
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Default Update

Satanic Temple leader 'very happily surprised' by support for Oklahoma monument | News OK

The emails and letters that have poured in to a New York satanic organization in the last few weeks are not exactly what the group expected, a spokesman said.

Photo - This artist's rendering provided by the Satanic Temple shows a proposed monument that the New York-based Satanic group wants to place at the Oklahoma state Capitol. The statue features a bearded, goat-headed demon sitting in a pentagram-adorned throne with children next to it. (AP Photo/Satanic Temple)
This artist's rendering provided by the Satanic Temple shows a proposed monument that the New York-based Satanic group wants to place at the Oklahoma state Capitol. The statue features a bearded, goat-headed demon sitting in a pentagram-adorned throne with children next to it. (AP Photo/Satanic Temple)
Spokesman Lucien Greaves said the Satanic Temple of New York has received much correspondence from people who say they are not Satanists but they still support his group's proposal to install a goat demon monument at the Oklahoma Capitol.

In fact, Greaves said, some of them are Christians.

“It's really the best I could hope for. The response has been remarkable, amazing,” Greaves said during a recent telephone interview.

“I couldn't have hoped for this magnitude of positive response, but I'm really moved by it. I'm happy and encouraged by people. We're getting emails from people who are Christians who feel comfortable reaching out to us and supporting it.”

The New York-based Satanic Temple caused a stir earlier this month when it unveiled designs for a 7-foot-tall statue of Satan that it is proposing to be placed alongside a Ten Commandments monument on the grounds of Oklahoma's Capitol.

The artist's rendering of the statue that was provided by the temple features Satan as Baphomet, a goat-headed demon with horns, wings and a long beard.

The proposal has yet to be considered because the Oklahoma Capitol Preservation Commission has placed a moratorium on considering any such requests while a lawsuit in opposition of the Ten Commandments monument is making its way through the courts. The Oklahoma chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union has sued to have that monument removed on the basis that it violates the separation of church and state.

In the meantime, Greaves said he feels his organization is presenting itself well, judging from the non-Satanists who have felt comfortable enough to approach the group through correspondence.

He said it could mean that many of them are not buying into the myths about Satanism, such as that all Satanists are “homicidal maniacs” or sacrificing animals.

“They are starting to look past the labels to see what we're actually doing and what we actually stand for. I am surprised, but I'm very happily surprised,” Greaves said.

“We've gotten a flood of emails from more Oklahomans who stand behind this project and are willing to support it — sign a petition, sign a waiver, you know, help establish our standing or help in any way they can,” he said.

“We've heard some criticism that we don't serve Oklahoma values, and I think there is no monolithic voice of Oklahoma values. There is a diverse population in Oklahoma like there is anywhere else, and it's simply ignorant to claim that there is one uniform voice of Oklahoma that can be spoken through any particular politician's narrow view.”

‘Plurality of voices'

Greaves said the Satanic Temple was contacted by its members in Oklahoma to spearhead the monument project.

Greaves said they believe that if the Ten Commandments monument is allowed to stay, other monuments such as the satanic statue also should be allowed. Other requests for monuments at the Capitol have been made by an animal rights group, the satirical Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and a Hindu leader in Nevada.

The satanic monument's supporters, including those who are not Satanists, also believe in this principle, Greaves said.

“This has definitely captured the imagination of a lot of people,” Greaves said.

“There's no small number of individuals. Granted, a lot of those individuals who reached out, with emails prefaced by ‘I don't consider myself a Satanist but ...' or even ‘I'm a Christian, however ...,' but they understand the value in upholding this constitutional freedom of religion and freedom of speech — the principle that we don't discriminate based on race, religion or creed, and that if you open up the public domain to one voice, you have to allow a plurality of voices and that's really what we're founded upon.”
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Old 01-26-2014, 03:58 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,088 posts, read 20,723,660 times
Reputation: 5930
Thanks for that, Jess

“There's no small number of individuals. Granted, a lot of those individuals who reached out, with emails prefaced by ‘I don't consider myself a Satanist but ...' or even ‘I'm a Christian, however ...,' but they understand the value in upholding this constitutional freedom of religion and freedom of speech — the principle that we don't discriminate based on race, religion or creed, and that if you open up the public domain to one voice, you have to allow a plurality of voices and that's really what we're founded upon.”

That is indeed what it is all about. That everyone has a voice and all men are created (1) equal. So you can put up ten commandments or a statue of Krishna, Dawkins (we draw the line at Hitler, because we have some legal lines that one doesn't cross) or indeed Satan in our garden, but in administration/government premises, you have to have this equality. The conclusion is rather in the premise that you don't have any religious symbol, but the conclusion follows as soon as the premise is sidelined - that you put up one religious symbol, anyone can put up theirs - so it is best not to do so.

This is constantly tried, whether it simply doesn't occur to the Biblebods who have got elected that Christianity should NOT be given preference in government (the appalling amount of lipservice to God from the Whitehouse can hardly disabuse them) or they are seeing whether they can get away with it. But the others have to be vigilant and must be ready with their response.

(1) and we can save the 'creation' debate. Created or evolved, the point is that all have an equal voice and no -one has a particular privilege to be heard exclusively.
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