For those who grew up religious, what was your journey away from it like? (Buddha, Mormonism)

[Northsouth]

This is an interesting thread, I hope it keeps going.

[mordant]

Originally Posted by mysteriousjane

For those of you who grew up religious, what was your journey away from faith like? Was it like one moment where suddenly it all hits you and you stop believing, or was it a slow creeping doubt that eroded at everything you once believed?

It can be either, I'm sure. But it speaks to the point I'm making over in the thread about demanding belief as a condition of salvation being an unreasonable demand: belief is not voluntary. You have simply reached a point where the impedance mismatch between reality and dogma is too great -- it creates cognitive dissonance and you simply aren't capable of believing it anymore.

To put it into perspective: if you tried really, really hard, could you believe wholeheartedly in Thor, or Vishnu, or Leprechauns? No? All that's happened is you've realized that your particular god is not a special case. Your cultural conditioning gave you a good run, but it's exhausted itself. You are now among the unbelieving.

I was a devout evangelical for decades -- "saved" as a child, attended Bible Institute. Life eventually beat it all out of me, despite my willingness to suspend disbelief.

How your family will take it ... that is tough. I got off easy; my deconversion happened after my parents died, and I have only one living sibling still in the faith, and he's eager to avoid the topic (I think he just wants the comfort of his illusions). And my wife at the time was unthreatened by it -- I guess she was too busy dying and my existential crises were the least of her concerns. But she was also compassionate and non-judgmental about such things, despite her faith. I would like to think we were proof that being "unequally yoked" is not necessarily a problem so long as the shared ethics remain in place. The truth is that we had built a relationship with each other, and our shared interests weren't dependent on church. If our whole life was based on service together in the church, it might have been more difficult.

A few thoughts, anyway, for what they are worth ...

[thrillobyte]

The only way I found to free myself from the pernicious dogma of Christian fundamentalism (propitiation, expiation, this -ation, that -ation, predestination, double predestination, blood appeasement, eternal torment, God's wrath needing satisfaction through sinners being tortured, etc and all the other man-made theological claptrap) was to immerse myself in counter-Christian theological readings for hours and hours a day until they started to make more sense to me than the garbage drummed into my head since I was a child---in other words, deprogramming myself. I wanted to completely free my mind from all this guilt-tripping that fundamentalists were constantly foisting on me with threats of God's anger and justice crushing me when I knew that His love vastly outweighed the other two, if the other two even existed. Now I am getting to the point where fundamentalist threats of "You are going to burn in hell in the most horrifying agony for all eternity" hurled at me from fundies around here barely causes a ripple on my radar. Any reaction is an annoyance--a mosquito bite--more than anything else.

That's the key: educate yourself. Goggle topic like "why I left Christian fundamentalism" or "Why Christian fundamentalism is so destructive" and learn how to free your mind from the poisonous effects of fundamentalist thinking.

If I can achieve it so can you.

[Bideshi]

Away? I grow closer to my God day by day.

[transmogrifier]

I started out as a christian, became a militant atheist and would now consider myself an agnostic with a willful belief in a God that I don't believe in.

- When times are tough, I pray and I feel better, even though I know no one is listening.

-When i feel sorrow for the dead I rejoice thinking about the day I get to see them again, even though I know that day will never come.

-When I feel regret for past transgressions i take solace that my sins can be forgiven, even though I know they can't be.

-when the fear of death challenges me I take comfort that life goes on afterwards, even though I know death is the final answer.

-when some ******* cuts me off in traffic its my fear of a God that I don't believe in that keeps me from destroying everything they love in an selfish act of bitter vengence.

So basically even though I turned against ALL religion its religion thats gotten me were I am today.

Sooooooooooo to answer the question, What was my journey like?

Rough at first when I wasn't sure what the right path to take was.

Better when I got away from all the self righteousness.

Worse when I became atheist and WAS the self righteous.

And now? Life is good. I let my daughter dress up and pretend shes a princess and sometimes I pretend there's a God. It makes us happy. So what if its not real?

[SeekerSA]

The idea of an afterlife folk often do not think through properly. I am 56 and have mental image of 30 and from various discussions, most friends my age are in the same mindset.

If we extrapolate this, then afterlife folk will be all 30somethings. If you grandmother or grandfather died in their 80s, do you really think they would want to spend eternity as old people?

Then there is the afterlife "and what now?" conundrum after you have done all the catching up. If you are not attending the eternal church service as depicted in the bible and by the hymn Amazing Grace, what the hell are you gonna do forever and then some? Roast marshmallows over the pits of hell?

No one has proved there is an afterlife and the only "proof" offered are NDEs and OOBEs, both which are a product of a living brain.

We were all duped into believing this crap as kids and now when one applies a bit of logic to the claims, questions like mine arise and then you have to decide if it is real or in fact if it really makes a difference in day to day life?

IMO, when we die it is over and having seen my mother hang onto life riddled with cancer, despite 60 years as a believer, it kinda confirms my suspicions that afterlife hopes are mere coping mechanisms to deal with the finality of this life. As much as I would love to hug and kiss my late wife one more time, I know it is never gonna transpire except maybe in a final hurrah as the brain creates a dream world at the point of death. Maybe that is all we will get and then it fades to black like the end of a movie.

[TRANSPONDER]

Originally Posted by Bideshi

Away? I grow closer to my God day by day.

And, if you are happy with that, we are fine about it. If you come and tell us how true and right it is, we will explain why we think you are wrong, but we are still fine about it. Those who are not happy with religion can talk to us about it. I don't see the point of your post unless an act of defiance against an ever increasing demographic questioning of the claims and authority of religion.

[TRANSPONDER]

Originally Posted by transmogrifier

I started out as a christian, became a militant atheist and would now consider myself an agnostic with a willful belief in a God that I don't believe in.

- When times are tough, I pray and I feel better, even though I know no one is listening.

-When i feel sorrow for the dead I rejoice thinking about the day I get to see them again, even though I know that day will never come.

-When I feel regret for past transgressions i take solace that my sins can be forgiven, even though I know they can't be.

-when the fear of death challenges me I take comfort that life goes on afterwards, even though I know death is the final answer.

-when some ******* cuts me off in traffic its my fear of a God that I don't believe in that keeps me from destroying everything they love in an selfish act of bitter vengence.

So basically even though I turned against ALL religion its religion thats gotten me were I am today.

Sooooooooooo to answer the question, What was my journey like?

Rough at first when I wasn't sure what the right path to take was.

Better when I got away from all the self righteousness.

Worse when I became atheist and WAS the self righteous.

And now? Life is good. I let my daughter dress up and pretend shes a princess and sometimes I pretend there's a God. It makes us happy. So what if its not real?

So, if the illusion suddenly won't answer any more, what back up do you have? The atheist has an acceptance of a reality that may not give us all that we would wish, and that leaves us to do what's right because it's right, not because Hank is going to give us a good kicking if we don't.

That's the only real reason. Your method may stay propped up, but it's founded on sand.

I'm not hectoring you into 'changing' - your life is your own and you know better that I do what's best for you. But 'just sayin' as they say, why it doesn't sound like a suitable or reliable method for me.

P.s the 'self - righteous' atheist. Yeah..I get feedback about us, in a sorta arrogance mode. It is especially noticeable in the brand - new deconvert, who thinks that they only need to explain it all reasonably and all the believers will say 'Cor..I never thought of that...he must be right.' It takes a while before one comes to understand and even empathize with those still deep in belief.

That said, atheism has one bottom line - if evidence and reason counts for anything, we are right.

[Northsouth]

There is a prediction in the bible that in the last days people will fall away from the faith......just look at it like you're fulfilling prophecy.

Seriously, as an agnostic atheist now I don't have that all-consuming fear that if I don't believe despite the lack of evidence that I'm going to hell......living with that kind of pressure is just ridiculous, especially since the "information" is coming from a book that was written by men thousands of years ago. The bible is simply a story book and let me tell ya, some of those stories are really crazy and disturbing.

Who's idea was it to make this "book" of fantasy into some sort of supernatural truth when there's no evidence for any of it? The guy who wanted to control the masses, that's who. Just things that boggle my mind now, it really is truly amazing what I used to fool myself into believing.

[Rider's Pantheon]

Mine is a long story. This is a re-cap, leaving out a LOT of detail.

As a kid my Dad dragged me to the Methodist church on Sundays, and I never liked it, but as a young adult I kept an open mind. When I was 23 I decided to get Baptized. I was interested in what it was all about. Soon after my Baptism I had a very intense meditation. A parable in the book "Dianetics" and the end of Stephen King's "The Gunslinger" (book 1) had me pondering the boundlessness of the spirit, and the concept of spiritual death and rebirth. During this meditation my top chakra lit up real bright. I didn't know anything about chakras, and it was very intense. I kept saying "I am at one with it, I am at one with my imagination". It was intense and scary. After that meditation I had a LOT of lucid, prophetic dreams, one after another. I also was visited by my animal totem, the Raven/crow, and one chakra would light up REAL bright for a couple weeks at a time, one chakra at a time. It was very dramatic for me, and it freaked me out. I still am amazed at it looking back at those times, the year of my awakening. It was also kind of scary, because I no one to talk to about it. I didn't want to be a Prophet who had people worship him. I wanted NOTHING to do with that scene, but here I was having the most incredible spiritual activity happening on a daily basis. The Bible was certainly NO help to me at all. Soon after experiencing these phenomenon, I went to the library(before the internet) researching "lucid dreaming" when I found "The Tibetan Book Of The Dead", and immediately felt a connection with it. That book is the only place I felt normal, and the Buddha was invaluable in teaching me the right attitude to have towards these things. He became my mentor.

It wasn't until 9 months after my Baptism when I found Jesus. He first came to me in a vision, and then I gave myself to him. In hind sight, it wasn't the best idea. After following him, spiritual activity dropped off in frequency, and I didn't stand up for myself like I should have. I don't think he was all that great of an influence, in hindsight. But I remained celibate and chaste (I still am). I knew I would use my knowledge for something, but I didn't know what. When I was 27 I prayed to God and asked him what it was I was waiting for, and he spoke from Heaven and gave me a vision of the turn of the century, and his voice said "You are waiting for Armageddon". I had no idea what it would be like, and I never prepared for any kind of holy war, or anything. But his answer consoled me.

Fast forward to 2007 when I had a vision. I was in the passenger seat of a golf cart, and Mitt Romney was driving the cart, giving me a tour of a construction site that was Mormonism. And Mitt said to me "Mormonism is a collaboration of all the religions" (collaboration of all the religions is what I considered to be MY religion) and it didn't sit right with me, but Mitt made me feel it was the FUTURE of Mormonism he was talking about. So I decided to research Mormonism, and was surprised at how horribly false Joseph Smith was. The fact that Mormonism claims that the ancient Indians were actually Hebrew, yet DNA evidence proves JS wrong(among other things) is what made me convinced that I had a genuine false prophet on my hands.

After taking apart Mormonism, I then moved my attention to Muhammad and Islam. That is when I had a three part vision of the Rider. And that is when I started going on to online forums AS the Rider who throws the false prophet and his god into the lake fire. I found the best way to take apart Islam is to go after the morality of Muhammad, and his teachings.

But after a few years of going after Muhammad, I found it REAL hard to defend the Bible, as, as many brilliant posters pointed out, the Bible was just as bad as Islam. So I started to go after Moses. I used the same approach going after Moses as I did Muhammad, in that, I attacked it from a moral stand point. I attacked it morally, and I think that is truly the weak point of the Bible. It just lacks any good morality.

At the start of my ministry being the Rider, spiritual activity spiked intensely. I had Jesus there in Heaven guiding me. He and I were very close, but I just couldn't get past the fact that Jesus was pro-Moses. It was a struggle for me. I had many visions to meditate on that convinced me that Jesus, in fact, enabled and empowered Moses and his terrorism. The war of Armageddon waged inside of me. Jesus was kicked out of Heaven, and in his place I have every other deity from all the free religions in Jesus's place. Having been so close to Buddhism for so long (longer than Jesus) helped me greatly. It is through Buddha, I have received eternal compassion and guidance. Kicking Jesus out of Heaven was a great turning point for me. I have less guilt and doubt from having to defend him and his ministry. Life is much simpler when you rely on your own sense of right and wrong, rather than having the HUGE onus of having to stand for, and defend the Bible, and all the open, unrepentant evil which it teaches. It a HUGE weight off my shoulders, which Jesus puts there, and doesn't lift a finger to help. I am much freer, and my ability to meditate and let go of things has multiplied because of the weight off of my shoulders.