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evolutionist scientists have this wheel they spin - the number comes into the billions of years. then they make a gadget that measures these rocks and comes up with the same figure. There is your proof they assert.
show me how you go back thousands of millions of years and enter billions of years. Show me how that is done (Accurately)
Show me the math! = YOU CAN'T !!!!!
Thousands of millions of.. ... ... guesses!
There are these buildings, usually made of brick but sometimes wood, where people gather to learn about things like science. It's called a school. No, I'm NOT talking about what people do at home around their kitchen table where housewives with a D+ average in high school are teaching kids about quantum mechanics. No, definitely not that.
I mean a REAL school officiated by credentialed teaching staff with actual educations in their chosen fields.
My advice is to find one of these places of learning - and go ask a scientist. He or she MIGHT actually help you and educate you and give you a few hundred dollars of free learning just to pull you out of the Bronze Age.
Because no sane person on this forum is going to type their fingers to the bone trying to prove something to you that you have already dismissed. It wouldn't matter if we "showed you the math" because you, who is most likely NOT a credentialed scientist, will just claim that it's all wrong, wave your hand dismissively, and then demand even more evidence from evolutionists.
Any evolutionist who actually complies with these petulant demands should be ashamed of themselves. You're simply giving the mouse a cookie ... and we know what happens next.
As for Atkutuq - we all know how creationists and Biblical literalists think. Science is generally trusted and regarded as true up until the point where it contradicts something in scripture - at which point it is utterly false. Thus science has this uncanny knack for being wrong about just the right things to keep a literal interpretation of scripture valid.
But if science is so untrusthworthy, fallible, and wrong, here's my proposition. I would love to see you "walk the walk" by eschewing science altogether. I mean, isn't that what you should be doing, given how unreliable it is? After all, you KNOW that your doctor just spins a wheel to find out what ailment you have and then invents a gadget to confirm it. Right?
I think you should PROVE to the world that you really stand by your belief. You can do this by giving up all of the modern things you enjoy due to science and live as if it were still 1,000 B.C.E.
I'll even bend the rules a bit and let you wear normal clothes just so you don't get arrested or something. But everything else ... nope, not allowed. And I'm doing this for your own good. Because you really wouldn't want to be in a car whizzing down the road at 70 mph knowing that unreliable and usually wrong scientific principles designed and built that car. You can also only use medical treatments that were available in the Bronze Age - because many medications have their roots in the theory of evolution, and we know how wrong THAT is.
You can't live in a modern home, you can't have electricity, you can't have central air and heat, all of your water must come from a well, and all of your food must be grown or killed by your own hand. You are permitted to own various types of livestock, and if a city official pays you a visit, just tell him that you don't acknowledge the science behind germ theory and bacteria, so he should let you keep those animals even in a densely populated area.
So, do we have a deal? Because if we don't, then I can charge you with hypocrisy and cherry picking. And you wouldn't want that now, would you?
But if science is so untrusthworthy, fallible, and wrong, here's my proposition. I would love to see you "walk the walk" by eschewing science altogether. I mean, isn't that what you should be doing, given how unreliable it is? After all, you KNOW that your doctor just spins a wheel to find out what ailment you have and then invents a gadget to confirm it. Right?
I think you should PROVE to the world that you really stand by your belief. You can do this by giving up all of the modern things you enjoy due to science and live as if it were still 1,000 B.C.E.
I'll even bend the rules a bit and let you wear normal clothes just so you don't get arrested or something. But everything else ... nope, not allowed.
This reminds me of people who carry on all day about the evil corporations and predatory banks and exploitive employers and the raping of the environment -- while driving an SUV, having bank accounts, holding down jobs and buying stuff at the grocery store put out by multinational corporations. If these people would walk or bike to the extent possible, drive a Prius, actually personally attend and participate in an actual protest once in awhile rather than just go on and on about it in social media, I would have some respect for them.
So I'm all for your suggestion -- theists, if science is so unreliable, then walk the talk. Show us how much you distrust science. At least turn Anabaptist and join an Amish community and turn the clock back a century or two.
I'm not surprised you don't read articles from peer-reviewed Academic Journals on climate science.
Much easier to swallow what you are fed from denier conspiracy websites that way.
It's okay, I'm not surprised that you cannot admit to being wrong. When presented with the facts, you simply deny... just as a Creationist does about evolution. Fact is, extremes are not increasing, and you cannot admit this because it goes against your preconceived notions of reality... just as evolution goes against Ken Ham's preconceived notions of reality.
There are these buildings, usually made of brick but sometimes wood, where people gather to learn about things like science. It's called a school. No, I'm NOT talking about what people do at home around their kitchen table where housewives with a D+ average in high school are teaching kids about quantum mechanics. No, definitely not that.
I mean a REAL school officiated by credentialed teaching staff with actual educations in their chosen fields.
My advice is to find one of these places of learning - and go ask a scientist. He or she MIGHT actually help you and educate you and give you a few hundred dollars of free learning just to pull you out of the Bronze Age.
Because no sane person on this forum is going to type their fingers to the bone trying to prove something to you that you have already dismissed. It wouldn't matter if we "showed you the math" because you, who is most likely NOT a credentialed scientist, will just claim that it's all wrong, wave your hand dismissively, and then demand even more evidence from evolutionists.
Any evolutionist who actually complies with these petulant demands should be ashamed of themselves. You're simply giving the mouse a cookie ... and we know what happens next.
As for Atkutuq - we all know how creationists and Biblical literalists think. Science is generally trusted and regarded as true up until the point where it contradicts something in scripture - at which point it is utterly false. Thus science has this uncanny knack for being wrong about just the right things to keep a literal interpretation of scripture valid.
But if science is so untrusthworthy, fallible, and wrong, here's my proposition. I would love to see you "walk the walk" by eschewing science altogether. I mean, isn't that what you should be doing, given how unreliable it is? After all, you KNOW that your doctor just spins a wheel to find out what ailment you have and then invents a gadget to confirm it. Right?
I think you should PROVE to the world that you really stand by your belief. You can do this by giving up all of the modern things you enjoy due to science and live as if it were still 1,000 B.C.E.
I'll even bend the rules a bit and let you wear normal clothes just so you don't get arrested or something. But everything else ... nope, not allowed. And I'm doing this for your own good. Because you really wouldn't want to be in a car whizzing down the road at 70 mph knowing that unreliable and usually wrong scientific principles designed and built that car. You can also only use medical treatments that were available in the Bronze Age - because many medications have their roots in the theory of evolution, and we know how wrong THAT is.
You can't live in a modern home, you can't have electricity, you can't have central air and heat, all of your water must come from a well, and all of your food must be grown or killed by your own hand. You are permitted to own various types of livestock, and if a city official pays you a visit, just tell him that you don't acknowledge the science behind germ theory and bacteria, so he should let you keep those animals even in a densely populated area.
So, do we have a deal? Because if we don't, then I can charge you with hypocrisy and cherry picking. And you wouldn't want that now, would you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by orogenicman
Well said, Shirina.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant
This reminds me of people who carry on all day about the evil corporations and predatory banks and exploitive employers and the raping of the environment -- while driving an SUV, having bank accounts, holding down jobs and buying stuff at the grocery store put out by multinational corporations. If these people would walk or bike to the extent possible, drive a Prius, actually personally attend and participate in an actual protest once in awhile rather than just go on and on about it in social media, I would have some respect for them.
So I'm all for your suggestion -- theists, if science is so unreliable, then walk the talk. Show us how much you distrust science. At least turn Anabaptist and join an Amish community and turn the clock back a century or two.
Here is a repost of a contribution I made to the "Evolution Farce" thread a few months ago...it touches on an issue here:
As you know...I stay out of debates about evolution.
Anyone that denies evolution is probably gonna be, well....never mind...you know what I mean.
But my bone of contention is about the oft used argument: If you doubt the validity of and/or are against a Theory, concept, or field...OR...endorse the validity of and/or for a Theory, concept, or field---You can reasonably be told to live your life without or with, respectively, everything that is considered derivative of what you don't or do endorse.
What's up with that?
So...if you say you back the concept that burning of fossil fuels causes air pollution and by extension, "global warming"...would a person that denies the concept of "global warming" be reasonable to tell the other person to live without anything that needed fossil fuel burned for its production or operation?
I've posted about this many times.
It is absurd to think people are hypocrites if they use or engage products or services that come from, or were made by, sources they don't 100% endorse and agree with.
It would be like the religious saying to the anti-religious:
~~If you don't agree with religion or believe in God, don't ever use currency that has "In God We Trust" on it.
~~If you don't agree with religion, don't live in a country that allows religious organizations to be tax exempt while the citizens all pay taxes, has a Constitution granting the right of free exercise of religion, and laws on the books declaring The Bible "The Word of God".
~~If you don't endorse religion, when the hurricane/tornado, flood, forest fire, etc. hits, and the Salvation Army shows up handing out food, water, and blankets, don't get in line.
I'm sure you see what I mean.
You don't have to endorse war and agree that everything about it is good...to live in & pay taxes to a country that has a military, or be a soldier. I don't think every aspect of killing animals is cool...but I still purchase and eat their flesh. Even more illustrative: I think pornography is depraved and disgusting, and I've been in the porn business for almost 30 years.
Quit with the ridiculous demands that people should abstain from things sourced from, or associated with, something one might not agree with 100%. It makes otherwise intelligent and reasonable people look very foolish and petty when they do that.
It would be like the religious saying to the anti-religious:
~~If you don't agree with religion or believe in God, don't ever use currency that has "In God We Trust" on it.
~~If you don't agree with religion, don't live in a country that allows religious organizations to be tax exempt while the citizens all pay taxes, has a Constitution granting the right of free exercise of religion, and laws on the books declaring The Bible "The Word of God".
~~If you don't endorse religion, when the hurricane/tornado, flood, forest fire, etc. hits, and the Salvation Army shows up handing out food, water, and blankets, don't get in line.
Atheists do not claim that some particular aspect of theology is wrong, we deny its entire basis (the existence of god). And we are consistent about that -- we don't believe in any gods.
Similarly, some theists (not all, but some, and particularly some participating in this discussion) are suggesting that the entire basis of science is invalid, and if you're going to go that route, then just like atheists don't have the luxury of believing in some gods and not others, you don't have the luxury of disbelieving only in scientific theories that gore your ox; you have to disbelieve in all of them. If you fly on planes, use electric lights and gas heat and automobiles and cell phones, then you believe in science and you can't disparage it to bring down evolution through guilt by association. Science affirms the theory of gravity, of electromagnetism, the periodic table elements, and so on to all the other proven theories -- INCLUDING evolution. Science doesn't have a special category for evolution that allows it to be accepted while also being fabricated. It doesn't regard it any differently than any other explanatory framework that it endorses.
It is one thing to say that evolution is a flawed theory, but if you're going to suggest that one reason it should be rejected is that science in general is flaky, unreliable, and dishonest, you had better be willing to put your money where your mouth is if you expect us to buy that you are making that argument in any way other than disingenuously.
Atheists do not claim that some particular aspect of theology is wrong, we deny its entire basis (the existence of god). And we are consistent about that -- we don't believe in any gods.
Similarly, some theists (not all, but some, and particularly some participating in this discussion) are suggesting that the entire basis of science is invalid, and if you're going to go that route, then just like atheists don't have the luxury of believing in some gods and not others, you don't have the luxury of disbelieving only in scientific theories that gore your ox; you have to disbelieve in all of them. If you fly on planes, use electric lights and gas heat and automobiles and cell phones, then you believe in science and you can't disparage it to bring down evolution through guilt by association. Science affirms the theory of gravity, of electromagnetism, the periodic table elements, and so on to all the other proven theories -- INCLUDING evolution. Science doesn't have a special category for evolution that allows it to be accepted while also being fabricated. It doesn't regard it any differently than any other explanatory framework that it endorses.
It is one thing to say that evolution is a flawed theory, but if you're going to suggest that one reason it should be rejected is that science in general is flaky, unreliable, and dishonest, you had better be willing to put your money where your mouth is if you expect us to buy that you are making that argument in any way other than disingenuously.
Nothing has changed in the arctic in over 50 years - Everything is still pretty much the same.
Hmmm... I'd actually been wondering (from your posts) if you lived in Alaska. I've even wondered if you were Native.
That statement leads me to believe either 1) I was wrong and you don't or, 2) You've been asleep the last 50 years or 3) You're one more person who just needs to be right. Maybe 4) Everyone in Barrow who is sounding the warning about the problems is wrong and YOU know the truth. Perhaps you should give them a call and tell them to stop worrying. (I get KNOM's newsletters. Perhaps you should let them know as well.)
Last edited by DewDropInn; 03-04-2014 at 08:03 PM..
It is absurd to think people are hypocrites if they use or engage products or services that come from, or were made by, sources they don't 100% endorse and agree with.
The difference is that the services you engage in (religiosity), is, itself, absurd, and not necessary, while using electricity, though its generation may pollute, is nearly unavoidable in the economy in which we live.
It's okay, I'm not surprised that you cannot admit to being wrong. When presented with the facts, you simply deny... just as a Creationist does about evolution. Fact is, extremes are not increasing, and you cannot admit this because it goes against your preconceived notions of reality... just as evolution goes against Ken Ham's preconceived notions of reality.
What "facts"? You didn't present any. Just some propaganda from a denier conspiracy source. You haven't even read the article your graphic was supposedly based on.
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