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Old 02-12-2014, 09:27 AM
 
Location: New York City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaznjohn View Post
Not so much beliefs, but whether the beliefs are developed from logic and reason. Individuals can come to different conclusions, but logical fallacies are rather objective.
Ignoring evolution is an irrational fallacy, as is believing in ghosts & apparitions, or pointing to a sentence in the bible and ignoring common sense & behaving unethically "because someone wrote something in a book". But I can think of no greater fallacy than concluding god does not exist. God may or may not exist, but assuming god does not is just as irrational as believing in Santa Claus riding on a magic sleigh
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Old 02-12-2014, 09:37 AM
 
7,381 posts, read 7,692,112 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakeJones View Post
Ignoring evolution is an irrational fallacy, as is believing in ghosts & apparitions, or pointing to a sentence in the bible and ignoring common sense & behaving unethically "because someone wrote something in a book". But I can think of no greater fallacy than concluding god does not exist. God may or may not exist, but assuming god does not is just as irrational as believing in Santa Claus riding on a magic sleigh
So assuming a supernatural being doesn't exist is as irrational as believing a supernatural being DOES exist?

Let's evaluate your comment this way. Assume we had a jar full of jelly beans and a third party told us that there were 300 jelly beans in the jar. I would contend that I have no reason to believe there are 300 jelly beans in the jar. You would contend that considering there are jelly beans in the jar, there must be 300. Not quite rational huh?
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Old 02-12-2014, 09:43 AM
 
Location: New York City
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Originally Posted by Amaznjohn View Post
So assuming a supernatural being doesn't exist is as irrational as believing a supernatural being DOES exist?
speaking of santa claus, what is your definition of a supernatural being?
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Old 02-12-2014, 10:02 AM
 
12,918 posts, read 16,861,079 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaznjohn View Post
So assuming a supernatural being doesn't exist is as irrational as believing a supernatural being DOES exist?

....and a third party told us that there were...
So, in reality, who do you think is the 3rd party?
And what is their purpose in giving their message (the Bible)?
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Old 02-12-2014, 11:28 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,088 posts, read 20,712,695 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakeJones View Post
Ignoring evolution is an irrational fallacy, as is believing in ghosts & apparitions, or pointing to a sentence in the bible and ignoring common sense & behaving unethically "because someone wrote something in a book". But I can think of no greater fallacy than concluding god does not exist. God may or may not exist, but assuming god does not is just as irrational as believing in Santa Claus riding on a magic sleigh
Ok. So I do not assume that a god does not exist, nor do I assume that it does not exist.

I do not know whether a god exists or not.

So I will not believe that a god exists until some convincing evidence is produced.

Any problems with that?
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Old 02-12-2014, 12:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by BlakeJones View Post
speaking of santa claus, what is your definition of a supernatural being?
Seems self-explanatory to me. A being that is not bound by natural laws.
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Old 02-12-2014, 12:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
So, in reality, who do you think is the 3rd party?
And what is their purpose in giving their message (the Bible)?
It doesn't matter. Without compelling evidence, I would have no reason to believe anyone, for any reason.
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Old 02-12-2014, 12:52 PM
 
Location: New York City
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Originally Posted by Amaznjohn View Post
Seems self-explanatory to me. A being that is not bound by natural laws.
And what are natural laws? I'll save us some time in the back and forth and assume that you mean laws of the universe. If you study some physics and read papers by the great minds of theoretical physics like Richard Feynman and Stephen Hawking, you'll find a lot of agreement that the universe is a structure that is expanding into a void which started at a single big bang event. The laws beyond this universe are not known to anyone, but likely are different than what our existing space-time provides. That big bang originated in an enclosing structure, not bound by the inner laws we live with, ergo supernatural by your definition does exist.

Funny how that works
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Old 02-12-2014, 02:48 PM
 
7,381 posts, read 7,692,112 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakeJones View Post
And what are natural laws? I'll save us some time in the back and forth and assume that you mean laws of the universe. If you study some physics and read papers by the great minds of theoretical physics like Richard Feynman and Stephen Hawking, you'll find a lot of agreement that the universe is a structure that is expanding into a void which started at a single big bang event. The laws beyond this universe are not known to anyone, but likely are different than what our existing space-time provides. That big bang originated in an enclosing structure, not bound by the inner laws we live with, ergo supernatural by your definition does exist.

Funny how that works
As you stated, the laws beyond this universe are not known to anyone. Though we might speculate, we do not know whether these same laws exist outside of this universe. I don't see your point since this does not demand the existence of any being.
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Old 02-12-2014, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
19,993 posts, read 13,470,976 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakeJones View Post
The laws beyond this universe are not known to anyone, but likely are different than what our existing space-time provides. That big bang originated in an enclosing structure, not bound by the inner laws we live with, ergo supernatural by your definition does exist.

Funny how that works
What makes something supernatural is not that we don't currently have information about it, but that it is outside of nature. Nature encompasses this universe and any others that exist, whether the other universes have different laws or not.

Your point has zero to do with god(s). Except that you are looking for a gap in which to find god(s) hiding, I suspect.
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