Honestly, I Cannot Conceive A Religion More Messed Up Than Christianity!

[bulmabriefs144]

I've come to believe that there's a Christianity that's taught in Sunday school, and a Christianity that actually works.

1) Christianity that's taught in Sunday school: Do unto others, etc. Christ died for us on the cross so we are saved. Be good and you'll get to Heaven. You get the idea.

2) Christianity that works: You goto the service to meet ppl. Jesus is actually just an example that someone else (maybe your friends/family even) put their hopes in you, so try your best to make it count. Don't ask God for forgiveness (God does exist, but mainly as creator), ask the person you wronged. Being good for its own sake just gets you used. Be kind, but be real.

That's all. Now go, and make the new church.

[Shirina]

Originally Posted by Atkutuq

The bible states clearly concerning mankind - The whole head is sick; the whole heart is corrupted - there is none that doeth good - NO NOT ONE!

I'm truly sorry that you just don't see that this particular paradigm is a manipulation tool invented by the original founders of the messianic Christ cult - a tool that is meant to keep you from abandoning the faith. Eliminate a person's own pride, dignity, and self-respect ... and then replace those with Jesus ... and you have a person now dependent on the cult and its leadership for his/her self-worth. It is designed to make you a needy person, someone who needs Jesus (and by default, the cult) to have a reason to wake up each day. This isn't some new tactic; it is very common. Even alien abduction groups do the same thing.

Originally Posted by Atkutuq

Yet you act surprised when this trait surfaces and reveals itself.

I'm only surprised at how many people still believe in all of this despite being in the 21st Century. America has the same amount of religiosity as most Third World nations with populations that are illiterate, uneducated, and have almost no access to information (except missionaries, of course - go figure).

Originally Posted by Atkutuq

Are you doubting God's Word ?? What portion of that statement do you feel does not apply to YOU??

There's no such thing as "God's Word," just Man's word packaged up to look like God's Word. Since we live in a free country (ostensibly, at any rate), none of it applies to me unless I wish it to.

Originally Posted by Atkutuq

What are you expecting?? Absolute perfection in man kind??

If we were, indeed, the creation of an all-powerful and omni-benevolent god, I would expect more than what we've gotten, to be sure. But since we are a product of evolution, the imperfections in our physical design and mental capacity make sense and should be expected.

Originally Posted by Atkutuq

Man's head & heart are corrupted - what does man do with God & His Word - He corrupts it more!

And this is precisely the reason why Christianity has splintered into 20,000 different denominations, sects, cults, covens, and cabals. Every last one of them thinks everyone else's "Word of God" is corrupted, but not theirs, of course.

Originally Posted by Atkutuq

Question: why do you emphasis man's faults ?? Why do you point fingers ?? Why ? are you so surprised when you claim - Look: this man was a "sinner' ?? Paul ? Abraham ? David? Moses etc.

Sinning is cheating on your wife or lying on your tax return. What those people did are crimes, not sins. Oh, I know, you're going to say they are the same thing. Yet how can anyone say with honesty that telling a white lie carries the same amount of "evil" as mass murder, genocide, and ethnic cleansing. To do such a thing cheapens the real horrors in this world.

Originally Posted by Atkutuq

Man kind is corrupted beyond any means of self redemption.

Like I said before: Cults are designed to keep you dependent upon them

Even Jesus said in Luke 14:26, "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."

Well, I doubt Jesus (whoever that was) ever said any such thing. But when Luke and his pals decided to set up their messianic cult, they had to convince their followers that not even family is as important as obedience to the dictates of the cult. This is such classic behavior - and ask any parent whose child fell prey to a cult. You're likely to hear very sad stories of children who really did break their ties with a loving family. Now the cult is so big that there's a good chance your entire family is in the cult so the "hate your family" mantra found in Luke isn't so noticeable any more.

Originally Posted by Atkutuq

Yet God Wrote a book; using 40 murdering misfits to seamlessly integrate everything into a book; Over a period of 1,600 years - where they all spoke about every single controversial subject under the sun - AND THEY were all in perfect agreement with each other.

This not normal - this is not man made. This book is "super" - natural!

God didn't write anything. The founders of a cult did. It only stands to reason that ALL controversial subjects would be simplified into one particular dogmatic set of beliefs. That's the whole point of a cult, isn't it? To get everyone with the same beliefs together? Well, that and to give the leadership a lot of power over others.

Originally Posted by Atkutuq

Jesus Christ is mentioned 11 times. Every-time you read - And God said - Right there is Jesus Christ - The Word of God - The Voice of God He created everything by the sheer power of the Word (only). (John 1:3)

What you're seeing here is the messianic cult leadership taking the Torah and adding on to it. Therefore, it becomes necessary to claim that God and Jesus are one and the same. Otherwise, the NT would have very little to do with the OT. The muslims did the same thing by taking the Torah and the rest of the Bible and adding on to THAT with the Quran. The Mormons, yeah, same thing, only they went back and added on to the Torah and the Bible instead of picking up where the Quran left off. Yeah, it's much easier to hijack someone else's cult than to start a completely new one - and you get more members that way, too.

Originally Posted by Atkutuq

Notice: Jesus never said - study the words written on your heart - He said quite the opposite.

I don't think anyone really knows what Jesus said - but it stands to reason that cult rules wouldn't allow anyone to read "what is written on their hearts" because that gives far too much leeway for interpretation and disenting opinions about cult doctrine.

Originally Posted by Atkutuq

Look @ one other religion - The Religion of peace - they believe it is ok to murder people and they will be rewarded with 72 virgins to engage in the horizontal - hump for all eternity. That is sick & corrupt!

Islam is just another cult, this time centered around Muhammad.

Originally Posted by Atkutuq

Jesus Christ is the main character in every single book of the entire bible.(Either by type or allegory) He is the ONE who said: Study the scriptures - He quoted scripture - They testify of Me.

This is how the cult leadership made scripture relevant to their particular messiah.

Originally Posted by Atkutuq

The bible is a simple book all about the redemption of man-kind. Through Jesus Christ & His Word(s) ONLY!

Yes, cults are very exclusionary that way. "Join me, and together we can rule the galaxy as father and son. Luke, it is your ... destiny. It is the only way."

Originally Posted by Atkutuq

It is man that said: "Nothing exploded and perfectly created everything for no apparent reason or for any meaningful purpose - One big accident! NO design - No plan - No purpose. No intelligence.

Heh, that really rubs you the wrong way, doesn't it. You just can't handle the idea that we might have to find our own meaning for our lives and for the universe instead of having it handed to us like little children who need our meat cut up for us into small, easily chewed bites lest we choke.

Originally Posted by Atkutuq

I think I will stick with being a student & servant of Jesus Christ through a relationship with Him & His Words only. He provides the "power" to accomplish the rest John 1:12

To each his own, I suppose.

[thrillobyte]

Originally Posted by Shirina

I'm truly sorry that you just don't see that this particular paradigm is a manipulation tool invented by the original founders of the messianic Christ cult - a tool that is meant to keep you from abandoning the faith. Eliminate a person's own pride, dignity, and self-respect ... and then replace those with Jesus ... and you have a person now dependent on the cult and its leadership for his/her self-worth. It is designed to make you a needy person, someone who needs Jesus (and by default, the cult) to have a reason to wake up each day. This isn't some new tactic; it is very common. Even alien abduction groups do the same thing.



I'm only surprised at how many people still believe in all of this despite being in the 21st Century. America has the same amount of religiosity as most Third World nations with populations that are illiterate, uneducated, and have almost no access to information (except missionaries, of course - go figure).



There's no such thing as "God's Word," just Man's word packaged up to look like God's Word. Since we live in a free country (ostensibly, at any rate), none of it applies to me unless I wish it to.



If we were, indeed, the creation of an all-powerful and omni-benevolent god, I would expect more than what we've gotten, to be sure. But since we are a product of evolution, the imperfections in our physical design and mental capacity make sense and should be expected.



And this is precisely the reason why Christianity has splintered into 20,000 different denominations, sects, cults, covens, and cabals. Every last one of them thinks everyone else's "Word of God" is corrupted, but not theirs, of course.



Sinning is cheating on your wife or lying on your tax return. What those people did are crimes, not sins. Oh, I know, you're going to say they are the same thing. Yet how can anyone say with honesty that telling a white lie carries the same amount of "evil" as mass murder, genocide, and ethnic cleansing. To do such a thing cheapens the real horrors in this world.



Like I said before: Cults are designed to keep you dependent upon them

Even Jesus said in Luke 14:26, "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."

Well, I doubt Jesus (whoever that was) ever said any such thing. But when Luke and his pals decided to set up their messianic cult, they had to convince their followers that not even family is as important as obedience to the dictates of the cult. This is such classic behavior - and ask any parent whose child fell prey to a cult. You're likely to hear very sad stories of children who really did break their ties with a loving family. Now the cult is so big that there's a good chance your entire family is in the cult so the "hate your family" mantra found in Luke isn't so noticeable any more.



God didn't write anything. The founders of a cult did. It only stands to reason that ALL controversial subjects would be simplified into one particular dogmatic set of beliefs. That's the whole point of a cult, isn't it? To get everyone with the same beliefs together? Well, that and to give the leadership a lot of power over others.



What you're seeing here is the messianic cult leadership taking the Torah and adding on to it. Therefore, it becomes necessary to claim that God and Jesus are one and the same. Otherwise, the NT would have very little to do with the OT. The muslims did the same thing by taking the Torah and the rest of the Bible and adding on to THAT with the Quran. The Mormons, yeah, same thing, only they went back and added on to the Torah and the Bible instead of picking up where the Quran left off. Yeah, it's much easier to hijack someone else's cult than to start a completely new one - and you get more members that way, too.



I don't think anyone really knows what Jesus said - but it stands to reason that cult rules wouldn't allow anyone to read "what is written on their hearts" because that gives far too much leeway for interpretation and disenting opinions about cult doctrine.



Islam is just another cult, this time centered around Muhammad.



This is how the cult leadership made scripture relevant to their particular messiah.



Yes, cults are very exclusionary that way. "Join me, and together we can rule the galaxy as father and son. Luke, it is your ... destiny. It is the only way."



Heh, that really rubs you the wrong way, doesn't it. You just can't handle the idea that we might have to find our own meaning for our lives and for the universe instead of having it handed to us like little children who need our meat cut up for us into small, easily chewed bites lest we choke.



To each his own, I suppose.

Thank you, Shirina. You said almost exactly what I wanted to say, but I just didn't have the energy or the will to take his post apart point by point like you did.

Originally Posted by Atkutuq View Post
Look @ one other religion - The Religion of peace - they believe it is ok to murder people and they will be rewarded with 72 virgins to engage in the horizontal - hump for all eternity. That is sick & corrupt!

"More bad news for the Taliban. Remember how they are promised 72 virgins when they die? Turns out that it's only one 72-year-old virgin." —Jay Leno

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by Shirina

I'm truly sorry that you just don't see that this particular paradigm is a manipulation tool invented by the original founders of the messianic Christ cult - a tool that is meant to keep you from abandoning the faith. Eliminate a person's own pride, dignity, and self-respect ... and then replace those with Jesus ... and you have a person now dependent on the cult and its leadership for his/her self-worth. It is designed to make you a needy person, someone who needs Jesus (and by default, the cult) to have a reason to wake up each day. This isn't some new tactic; it is very common. Even alien abduction groups do the same thing.
I'm only surprised at how many people still believe in all of this despite being in the 21st Century. America has the same amount of religiosity as most Third World nations with populations that are illiterate, uneducated, and have almost no access to information (except missionaries, of course - go figure).
There's no such thing as "God's Word," just Man's word packaged up to look like God's Word. Since we live in a free country (ostensibly, at any rate), none of it applies to me unless I wish it to.
If we were, indeed, the creation of an all-powerful and omni-benevolent god, I would expect more than what we've gotten, to be sure. But since we are a product of evolution, the imperfections in our physical design and mental capacity make sense and should be expected.
And this is precisely the reason why Christianity has splintered into 20,000 different denominations, sects, cults, covens, and cabals. Every last one of them thinks everyone else's "Word of God" is corrupted, but not theirs, of course.
Sinning is cheating on your wife or lying on your tax return. What those people did are crimes, not sins. Oh, I know, you're going to say they are the same thing. Yet how can anyone say with honesty that telling a white lie carries the same amount of "evil" as mass murder, genocide, and ethnic cleansing. To do such a thing cheapens the real horrors in this world.
Like I said before: Cults are designed to keep you dependent upon them
Even Jesus said in Luke 14:26, "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."
Well, I doubt Jesus (whoever that was) ever said any such thing. But when Luke and his pals decided to set up their messianic cult, they had to convince their followers that not even family is as important as obedience to the dictates of the cult. This is such classic behavior - and ask any parent whose child fell prey to a cult. You're likely to hear very sad stories of children who really did break their ties with a loving family. Now the cult is so big that there's a good chance your entire family is in the cult so the "hate your family" mantra found in Luke isn't so noticeable any more.
God didn't write anything. The founders of a cult did. It only stands to reason that ALL controversial subjects would be simplified into one particular dogmatic set of beliefs. That's the whole point of a cult, isn't it? To get everyone with the same beliefs together? Well, that and to give the leadership a lot of power over others.
What you're seeing here is the messianic cult leadership taking the Torah and adding on to it. Therefore, it becomes necessary to claim that God and Jesus are one and the same. Otherwise, the NT would have very little to do with the OT. The muslims did the same thing by taking the Torah and the rest of the Bible and adding on to THAT with the Quran. The Mormons, yeah, same thing, only they went back and added on to the Torah and the Bible instead of picking up where the Quran left off. Yeah, it's much easier to hijack someone else's cult than to start a completely new one - and you get more members that way, too.
I don't think anyone really knows what Jesus said - but it stands to reason that cult rules wouldn't allow anyone to read "what is written on their hearts" because that gives far too much leeway for interpretation and disenting opinions about cult doctrine.
Islam is just another cult, this time centered around Muhammad.
This is how the cult leadership made scripture relevant to their particular messiah.
Yes, cults are very exclusionary that way. "Join me, and together we can rule the galaxy as father and son. Luke, it is your ... destiny. It is the only way."
Heh, that really rubs you the wrong way, doesn't it. You just can't handle the idea that we might have to find our own meaning for our lives and for the universe instead of having it handed to us like little children who need our meat cut up for us into small, easily chewed bites lest we choke.
To each his own, I suppose.

Awesome post!! You have an exceptional mind and great insight, Shirina. The real travesty in all this is that people like you and other sane, reasonable and intelligent people are repulsed away from anything to do with God. The good news is that places you much closer to God in character than those who would-be believers.

[TwoWitnesses]

Originally Posted by thrillobyte

I have been doing some studies on Paul's doctrine and how it so differs from Jesus' and, upon reflection of everything I have learned about Christianity as a religious institution (not to be confused with the simple doctrine of love that Jesus taught) I have to conclude that it is one GIGANTIC mess of confusion filled with a motley crew of shady, spurious, corrupt characters, a shady history that any family would be so ashamed of they'd bury it so deep in their closets it could never be found, contradictions, infighting, and just about every negative adjective you could think of. Honestly, Bishop Spong wasn't kidding when he said that Christianity in its present form cannot survive the next 50 years. Something's gotta give, as the song goes.

I have discovered that Christians today follow the gospel of Paul and not Jesus. Jesus has become a minor reference character in this comic tragedy. 97% of Christians today follow this heretical doctrine of salvation through faith ALONE (no works). I am not surprised most Christians choose this path. My studies have led me to several conclusions:

1. Paul was a liar, albeit a sincere liar. He would say and do anything to get HIS version of the gospel across to pagans. He admits doing as much several places in his epistles--the ends justifies the means, far as he is concerned.
2. He totally turns Jesus' gospel of salvation through faith + works into salvation through faith alone, throwing out everything that Jesus had previously said about obeying the Law and doing good works, presumably because he thought it would better appeal to the crowds of heathens he was trying to convert. Let's face it, if you're faced with having to work for your salvation and then you're told you don't have to do any work, just believe and you're in---well, which would you choose?
3. His doctrine of predestination is nowhere to be found in Jesus' teachings.
4. The Bible itself teaches eternal torment, universalism, and annihilation--three totally distinct and different destinies for man's spirit.
5. Depending on whose translation you read you can find ransom atonement salvation, Christ Victorious atonement salvation, satisfaction atonement salvation, penal atonement salvation, and maybe three or four more if you look hard enough.
6. all this confusion has led to Christianity splitting off into more than 30,000 different denominations with their own set of beliefs and this doesn't even begin to take into account Mormons, 7th-Day Adventists, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christadelphians, etc.

I could go on and on and on but one thing is clear. Jesus' message has been long lost in this CF. And I cannot tell you what CF stands for or I will be banned.

Great post Thrillobyte. I was saying this same thing about Paul 2 years ago when I first came here, but you've gone into some really great detail.

[thrillobyte]

Originally Posted by TwoWitnesses

Great post Thrillobyte. I was saying this same thing about Paul 2 years ago when I first came here, but you've gone into some really great detail.

Thank you, TwoWitnesses. I've done quite a bit of reading about Paul lately. I've started with his critics--men like Thomas Jefferson, Albert Schweitzer--here are just a few of a list of names that could fill a book:

Jeremy Bentham, renowned English philosopher

"It rests with every professor of the religion of Jesus to settle within himself to which of the two religions, that of Jesus or that of Paul, he will adhere."

Bishop John S. Spong (Episcopal Bishop of Newark)

"Paul's words are not the Words of God. They are the words of Paul- a vast difference."

Hyam Maccoby (Talmudic Scholar)

"Paul, not Jesus, was the founder of Christianity as a new religion"

Now that told me that Paul needed further investigation. So along the way I discover that Paul started quoting heavily from Oriental and Mystic writers from 500 years earlier and I thought, "Whaaaa....? What in the hell is going on here?

So I start comparing his teachings on salvation with Jesus and my jaw just dropped to the ground. Spong, Schweitzer, Jefferson, Bentham were not wrong. Paul did start teaching a gospel totally different from the one Christ taught. And he argued viciously with genuine apostles like Peter and James who knew Jesus personally, claiming that he was getting his revelations directly from Jesus Himself. That's delusional. Put that together with his well-documented psycho-sexual-social neuroses and we have a real head case on our hands. And that's just the tip of the iceberg!

And this guy is composing over half of the New Testament!!! Honestly, this guy has more skeletons buried in his basement than John Wayne Gacy!

[monumentus]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

The real travesty in all this is that people like you and other sane, reasonable and intelligent people are repulsed away from anything to do with God.

But most people are not - certainly not atheists - repulsed away from anything to do with god. We are repulsed away from people claiming things for which there is no reason to think true. "God" is just one example of this in a great sea of other examples.

And there is no tevesty in that. Not accepting things people make up is good practice.