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Old 02-24-2014, 07:41 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,612 posts, read 4,892,143 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
Suppose we are having a big party to celebrate our English ancestors landing at Jamestown VA in 1607. To be inclusive, we want to hire a professional Native American photographer to document our re-enactment of the landing.

Should the Native American photographer be allowed to refuse to take the pictures we want or is he discriminating against us unfairly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsettomati View Post
If the Native American photographer refuses, what is the protected class that is the subject of discrimination

Americans with English ancestry.

I believe it is unlawful to discriminate against people because of their National Origin.
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Old 02-24-2014, 08:44 PM
 
Location: Type 0.73 Kardashev
11,110 posts, read 9,804,566 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
Americans with English ancestry.

I believe it is unlawful to discriminate against people because of their National Origin.
Uh huh. Because here in America, we only celebrate such things if we're really have English ancestors, just like only those with Irish ancestors celebrate St. Patrick's Day, right?

By your 'logic', someone who wouldn't serve a patron wearing a swastika would be guilty of discriminating against 'those of German origins'. But they wouldn't, because the two are distinct, as are being of English origin and celebrating the founding of Jamestown. In the real world, neither 'historical celebrants' nor 'political affiliation' are protected classes.

You're really flailing for an excuse to justify the fondness you have for this law.

And as for the application of this to religious beliefs, somehow you missed the question where I asked for the religious excuse of the Native American in refusing to photograph the celebration, a connection you immediately made in your second post, here:
Quote:
Would it be OK for a photographer to refuse to take pictures at a gay wedding because his religion teaches that homosexuals should not get married?
Well?
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Old 02-24-2014, 08:55 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,612 posts, read 4,892,143 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsettomati View Post
And as for the application of this to religious beliefs, somehow you missed the question where I asked for the religious excuse of the Native American in refusing to photograph the celebration
I did not suggest the Native Americans might have a religious excuse for not wanting to photograph our Jamestown celebration.
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Old 02-25-2014, 11:13 AM
 
6,324 posts, read 4,320,590 times
Reputation: 4335
If we didn't have all of this 3,000 year-old baggage to deal with - such as a holy book which includes a list of people to hate, for instance - we wouldn't have all of this fuss and bother, and people could just do their jobs. But noooooo, instead people have to proselytize and "adhere to their religion," but only when it comes to gays. Because no one is checking on whether their customers are adulterers or fortune tellers or if they worked on the Sabbath last weekend.

Then all of the other questions would be rendered moot.
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Old 02-26-2014, 12:37 PM
 
63,779 posts, read 40,038,426 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina View Post
If we didn't have all of this 3,000 year-old baggage to deal with - such as a holy book which includes a list of people to hate, for instance - we wouldn't have all of this fuss and bother, and people could just do their jobs. But noooooo, instead people have to proselytize and "adhere to their religion," but only when it comes to gays. Because no one is checking on whether their customers are adulterers or fortune tellers or if they worked on the Sabbath last weekend.
Then all of the other questions would be rendered moot.
"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Shirina again."
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Old 02-26-2014, 02:39 PM
 
23,654 posts, read 17,501,648 times
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Can the same baker refuse to make a KKK cake for a celebration? How about a Nazi cake? I think one was taken to court when they refused to make a cake with Happy birthday Adolph Hitler on it.
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Old 02-26-2014, 03:06 PM
 
650 posts, read 513,894 times
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The whole thing is crazy. Esp the photographer thing. A photographer is also a guest to the wedding and often at the reception. So whats going to happen at the big party ? This is why all these things are creating greater division. What kind of a father would plan a wedding for the daughter with a photographer who party's it up at gay celebrations ? none of the men in my family that's for sure. The common people think everyone is common, nice try.Same with all the rest of it and the native guy, all they need to do is start showing slander( business) by acceptance and all this stuff will be history. This is what happens when people try to force things on the people. I wouldn't even buy a car off a pro gay movement dude. Nothing worse then a small fractional group trying to bully and take over. That's not how it works, never did. The more noise the worse it gets. Now they are getting into kiddie theater with the Disney thing so I guess that's the deal. Pushy pushy comes last no matter what the thing is. Its all divisive and in my opinion 100% the anxious, pro gay hetros fault . 100%. Showing for and representing the national anxiety problem, which is severe . Plus or add to it controversies = $ and $ rules in this world.

Last edited by alexcanter; 02-26-2014 at 04:08 PM..
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Old 02-26-2014, 03:16 PM
 
6,324 posts, read 4,320,590 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexcanter View Post
This is what happens when people try to force things on the people.
You mean like when religion tries to force itself onto the rest of us?

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexcanter View Post
I wouldn't even buy a car off a pro gay movement dude.
Is that because you're a bigot, alexcanter? Is it because you just can't handle the idea of sharing the planet with people you don't like?> Are you afraid of catching "gay germs" if you use the car? Do you think you can catch homosexuality from a toilet seat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexcanter View Post
Nothing worse then a small fractional group trying to bully and take over.
There is one thing that's even worse: A large and well-funded majority group trying to bully and take over. Gee, I wonder who THAT could be?
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Old 02-26-2014, 03:21 PM
 
6,324 posts, read 4,320,590 times
Reputation: 4335
Quote:
Originally Posted by janelle144 View Post
Can the same baker refuse to make a KKK cake for a celebration? How about a Nazi cake? I think one was taken to court when they refused to make a cake with Happy birthday Adolph Hitler on it.
I believe that a business person should be allowed the option to refuse to do specific things. I don't think anyone should be obligated to bake a KKK cake or to put swastikas on it.

But that's different than discriminating against the person. You're not refusing to put swastikas on a cake because of who the person is, but because of what he wants you to do. If he decided against the swastikas and instead wanted you to bake a normal cake, you'd probably do it.

But this Arizona law is allowing discrimination against the person ... which means you don't have to serve him AT ALL whether he wants a swastika on his cake or a cute dolphin or a kitten.

I don't think people are really understanding this distinction when they come up with all of these astronomically unlikely scenarios.
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Old 02-26-2014, 03:35 PM
 
650 posts, read 513,894 times
Reputation: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina View Post
You mean like when religion tries to force itself onto the rest of us?



Is that because you're a bigot, alexcanter? Is it because you just can't handle the idea of sharing the planet with people you don't like?> Are you afraid of catching "gay germs" if you use the car? Do you think you can catch homosexuality from a toilet seat?


There is one thing that's even worse: A large and well-funded majority group trying to bully and take over. Gee, I wonder who THAT could be?

Thanks for reading. Even if I agreed with you and saw the light so to say, it wouldn't be enough to change things as explained. The world is not all made up, of common people who just follow things .
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