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Fairy tales are not typically supported by archaeology
Fairy Tales not as they tend to be set in mythical words and lands and alternate realities.
However FICTION is not just often supported by archaeology.... I actually would not be surprised if it was MOSTLY supported by it.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
IF you are going to write off the OT as fiction then it is only fair to write off every ancient event as potential fiction.
Absolutely! You are slowly and incrementally starting to get it!
We should consider everything fiction unless substantiated otherwise. Some things have lots of substantiation in our history texts. Some have moderate.
And some, like your bible, have almost none at all. And that is the crux of the issue with your assertions on this forum. You have literally no support for the events described in the bible except vague references to the fact that archaeology has shown some of the locations mentioned therein to actually have existed.
And on the scale of evidence from weak to strong.... this does not even REGISTER.
Then stop trying to belittle the book as just this insignificant moldy book of tales by some ignorant sheep herders. It only demonstrates hatred for something that you try to claim is just fiction.
I don't belittle it. Even as an Atheist, I tend to think large portions of it should probably be required reading for school children. It is important, a major cultural touchstone, whose mythology pervades our culture. I find is shocking when people don't get references to "a Damacus road experience" or "David and Goliath'.
But, I also think that an educated person ought to understand where "Trojan Horse" originates, what Ragnarok is, and the purpose of Valkyrie. They are all mythology. They all represent human experience, and give us a picture into the thoughts of a specific culture.
What I do find incredibly misguided, is to take it for anything beyond this. The Bible is no more history than the Prose Edda, no more legal text than the Bhagavad Gita, and no more science book than the Qu'ran.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Why should I? That was never the point.
Ahh, ok. So if we can agree that the Bible is a culturally important book, whose popularity in no way makes it inherently factual, historical, or supernatural, what are we arguing about? I thought the purpose of listing those factoids was to somehow reinforce the credibility of the Bible?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Mountains of evidence? A large part of that "evidence" assumes that the geographic and physical properties of the earth were exactly the same thousands of years ago as it is today. That would be like telling someone from the 1600s that global warming now exists. Impossible! They would say.
Yeah, mountains of evidence. We have geology, astrophysics, biology all painting a picture that is much different than the Bible. It is not impossible that virtually every physical constant, everything we understand about physics, about reality itself, has changed in the past, but there is no evidence to suggest that this is the case. Everything we understand about reality points to an old, expanding universe originating from a singularity, planets and stars coalescing from the remnants of the singularity, and life evolving over a period of millions and millions of years. That is not to say we have all the answers or that some future discovery will not revolutionize our understanding of the world, but the Biblical mythology is no more supported than the earth being created by the union between the sky father and the earth mother (Maori tradition), or a spirit water beetle diving into an eternal sea and bringing mud from the bottom to form earth (Cherokee).
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Evidence is being discovered all the time so much that bible archaeology is a completely legitimate realm. Funny that I don't see any scholars dedicating their time to Zeus archaeology. Here is a more recent example of a discovery which supports the narratives of Joshua.
Of course Biblical Archaeology is a legitimate pursuit! I will say that unfortunately, some practioners of it are apologists first, and archaeologists second. He is trying desperately to scrape up anything that supports his theory that Jehrico was inhabited buring the time period that Joshua supposedly conquered Cannan, but so far he has not come up with anything conclusive enough to disprove Kenyon's dating of the site. In fact, since he advanced this theory in the early 90's there has been further radiocarbon dating that pretty solidly debunks his theories...
As far as "Zeus" archaeology, we essentially do have that. We just call it "Archaeology" there has been a lot of work, for example to examine the Illiad, which is clearly mythic in nature, and find the actual history beneath the gods, invincible warriors, and wooden horses. We do this with all writings, recognizing that in any mythology or folk tale there can be grains of historical truth. I have a book that examines various Briton warlords to try to find some historical basis for King Arthur. Why is it surprising that the Bible would receive the same treatment?
All biblical literalists are going to be deeply, deeply disappointed.
These are the ones who will be disappointed---Revelation 16
With 3 misleading inspired expressions, satan misleads every kingdom( govt, armies,supporters) on this earth, to stand in opposition to God at Har-mageddon. = 99%--the result=Daniel 2:44
It will be just like after 9/11 in the usa--govt and their media will fill hearts with hatred and patriotism, except this will be against Gods true followers. And Gods word teaches when the world rises up against his people it will be like poking him in the eye( reaction) = Har-mageddon.
Your Zeus example is funny though. Why are atheists not dedicating countless threads to debating Greek mythology? I don't see atheists getting angry at Zeus, yet they go to great lengths to trash about Christianity. Reason being - Zeus is false, God is real.
Wow ... it's too bad the forum didn't give $1000 prizes for posting the worst argument because I think this one would definitely qualify.
It will be just like after 9/11 in the usa--govt and their media will fill hearts with hatred and patriotism, except this will be against Gods true followers. And Gods word teaches when the world rises up against his people it will be like poking him in the eye( reaction) = Har-mageddon.
Too bad you can't be respectful and just politely point out flaws in my argument if it is bad. No you have to be insulting and rude. Typical.
The quite serious answer is that there is no need to debunk Greek Mythology, because no one believes it. It is debunked already. It is a myth, and virtually everone understands that it is not literal. Can you find truth about the human condition in the stories? Sure! Can you find inspiration from the poets, playwrights, and philosophers who tell these tales? Absolutely! But no one, not even in Greece, is seriously claiming that Zeus is punishing Greece for abandoning Him, so one is demanding that the story of the Titans be taught is science class.
Meanwhile, countless religions with no more basis in fact than the Norse Pantheon, or the gods of Mt Olympus, or the Caananite pantheon are demanding to be taken seriously as purveyors of fact and truth. These are the ones that must be "debunked", the ones actively trying to force their mythology on others.
The quite serious answer is that there is no need to debunk Greek Mythology, because no one believes it. It is debunked already. It is a myth, and virtually everone understands that it is not literal. Can you find truth about the human condition in the stories? Sure! Can you find inspiration from the poets, playwrights, and philosophers who tell these tales? Absolutely! But no one, not even in Greece, is seriously claiming that Zeus is punishing Greece for abandoning Him, so one is demanding that the story of the Titans be taught is science class.
Meanwhile, countless religions with no more basis in fact than the Norse Pantheon, or the gods of Mt Olympus, or the Caananite pantheon are demanding to be taken seriously as purveyors of fact and truth. These are the ones that must be "debunked", the ones actively trying to force their mythology on others.
-NoCapo
The why isn't the Bible so easily dismissed by everyone since you place it on the same plane of existence as Greek mythology? The answer is anyone who truly studies the Bible, ( and by study, I mean be willing to accept it with an open heart and mind) they will find that it is very dense with spiritual truth and meaning. The Bible is a collection of 60 books written by different authors spanning hundreds of years. Yet, it retains a remarkable consistency in its truth and message. For example, you can go way back to Genesis 1:26 and see proof of the trinity. Let US make mankind in our image.
Is it typical for a book of myths to have a detailed book of laws and customs as well as detailed genealogies? The Bible has both.
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