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Old 07-08-2014, 07:23 AM
 
10,077 posts, read 5,708,216 times
Reputation: 2892

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
Which tells us nothing more than people writing fiction like to engage in the recycling of the ideas of others. The Jesus Myth for example has many parallels to Myths that came before it. The Lion, Witch and Wardrobe series for example also make poorly concealed attempts to validate Christian Mythology in the minds of our youth and the parallels are Blatant in the extreme.
Ok, so now you are claiming as fact that Jesus is a myth? That completely contradicts what you said later in this same post. It's sad though that you need to talk trash about CS Lewis and his work which has been enjoyed by countless people. Your extreme contempt (which actually originates from Satan) for anything Christian is quite transparent.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post


The point you continue to dodge however is just because we can validate the fictional origin of some books today.... does not guarantee we will be able to do so 2000 years from now. And 2000 years from now much of the fiction we have today will match many of the findings of archaeology and other human inquiry.

And if this is true of 2000 years from now then it is MORE true of 2000-6000 years in the past given the paltry capability of our species to record anything at all back then. Yet you find a few cherry picked incidents of overlap between Archaeology and biblical events and you jump around like you think this verifies anything.

It does not.

At all.

Then again, you completely devalue archaeology since you are basically saying it is impossible to verify history from fiction. I don't buy it. There are often disclaimers on works of fiction that any resemblance to actual events is mere concidence, not to mention the countless interviews or writings of other people who clearly established the work as fiction that would be discovered as well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post




So what? This does not for one moment validate that there actually is one. Or that biblical events are true. Or any other of the nonsense preposterous claims you trot out as fact on this forum.

All you are doing really is demonstrating that you do not understand the fallacies and do not care to. Look up "Argumentum Ad Populum". Learn it. Ditch it. Stop using it.

If you want to trot out fallacies as a defense then I will be glad to point out that you regularly use
Argumentum ad hominem and Argumentum ad ignorantiam (argument to ignorance).

And let's add Dicto simpliciter (sweeping generalization). Your bold claim that any Christian having a supernatural experience is suffering from hallucination is an example of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post


You are getting even more shrill and desperate now. Your misuse of "Argumentum Ad Populum" does not shift the onus of evidence. It never has before. It will not do it now.

The claim there is a god is the positive claim. Therefore the claim there is a god is yours to substantiate. Not mine. I have claimed nothing except to point out that the idea there is a god is entirely unsubstantiated in any way. Much less by you.
So in other words, you believe that you can make ANY claim that you want and not have to back it up apparently. I believe if you are claiming that the Bible is fiction, not as a personal belief but as an established fact then back it up! Otherwise, it is just biased talk.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post

I was drawing parallels with the idea that there is an eternal father figure ruler who rules vicariously through his equally eternal perfect son. If you can not see the parallels between THAT and Christianity then you simply do not know your own religion.
I know my faith in the proper perspective of a loving God who endured hours of physical torture and pain to save human beings who even to this day spit in his face.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post

I believe that the events described in the Bible are unsubstantiated and uncorroborated by any other source external to it. That is my claim.
Yet at the beginning of the post, you claimed AS FACT that Jesus was a myth. That's different than just saying the evidence is lacking. Back it up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post

Yes actually. Your knowledge of law is clearly as low as your knowledge of science and once again you present your own ignorance on a topic as evidence for your claims about that topic.

If the case against you is solely uncorroborated personal testimony then the case IS thrown out of course. That is why, for example, we do not convict people of rape based solely on the testimony of the "victim".
I will gladly admit that I am no legal expert so if my statement was wrong then explain why without the brow beating. Your comments still doesn't sound right to me. How is personal testimony corroborated then? Multiple witnesses? But you just said that was a logical fallacy.
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Old 07-08-2014, 07:23 AM
 
1,248 posts, read 1,379,665 times
Reputation: 639
It is already starting. They are disarming the nation abusing the law system, and because respective gun owners ( who are selfish ) do not know the law, or go outside and fight for their rights. We already brainwashing people from not having sex, not getting pregnant or married. We are already making people lives more messed then it is. We even tried to brainwash people from having sex period, and good sex I might add. We are brainwashing people into non-heterosexual, calling it okay to children young as five. We are brainwashing the young people from having sex with people. We are brainwashing our society into eating less rations, and calling smaller boxed ( plastic casing ) goods futuristic. All we need to do is get rid of god, and our world will have an super war, just like the one in LOGANS RUN, and that is what society will be like.
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Old 07-08-2014, 07:33 AM
 
6,324 posts, read 4,307,929 times
Reputation: 4333
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessgeek View Post
It is usually some of our self proclaimed Christian leaders who are their own worst enemies. Here are some "gem" quotes from Pat Robertson and a few make a reasonable Christian like myself even question his sanity. I am curious if some others have the same view after reading these in the link below. He wishes for destruction from natural disaster on some of our cities for starters. I would never waste my time watching this guy's show. Stand up comedy would have been a better fit for him!

It amazes me how gullible some fellow Christians are and this irresponsible behavior by some of our mega preachers is one reason people are joining other religions or choosing not to believe. These are primarily self inflicted wounds. That famous Pogo quote is appropriate here: "We have met the enemy and he is us."

It is time for some of our "leaders" to raise their own game instead of lashing out at secular scapegoats or step aside and hand it over to more sensible people. FWIW, secular society/government should be thanked more often by religious leaders for providing churches with their tax exemptions which ease the financial burden considerably.

Stupid Pat Robertson Quotes - Political Humor.

LOL.
Pat Robertson is a senile goat that should have stepped away from the camera years ago. You're absolutely right - people like him turn the stomachs of younger people and so Christianity is fast becoming an "old person's religion" thanks to its rigidity and lack of focus on spiritualism.

I remember hearing Robertson take a call from his audience once. The caller asked what she should do about the buddha statues that her roommate had placed around the apartment. Robertson happily informed the caller that she should take all the statues and smash them.

Yeah ... that was his solution. I mean, never mind the fact that you can either go to jail or be sued for smashing someone else's property. Never mind the fact that it shows a hefty lack of respect for someone else's religious belief.

What -did- come to mind, however, was way back in 2001 when the Taliban destroyed two 1700 year-old statues of Buddha in Afghanistan.
THE world's two largest standing Buddhas - one of them 165ft high - were blown up by the Taliban in Afghanistan at the weekend. After failing to destroy the 1,700-year-old sandstone statues of Buddha with anti-aircraft and tank fire, the Taliban brought a lorryload of dynamite from Kabul. A Western observer said: "They drilled holes into the torsos of the two statues and then placed dynamite charges inside the holes to blow them up."
Linky Linky

Interesting, isn't it, that we spent 10 years and over 5,000 American lives fighting the Taliban and yet these whackos like Robertson act -just- like they do. Why aren't we fighting Pat Robertson with equal fervor?
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Old 07-08-2014, 07:40 AM
 
6,324 posts, read 4,307,929 times
Reputation: 4333
Quote:
Originally Posted by RegalSin View Post
It is already starting. They are disarming the nation abusing the law system, and because respective gun owners ( who are selfish ) do not know the law, or go outside and fight for their rights. We already brainwashing people from not having sex, not getting pregnant or married. We are already making people lives more messed then it is. We even tried to brainwash people from having sex period, and good sex I might add. We are brainwashing people into non-heterosexual, calling it okay to children young as five. We are brainwashing the young people from having sex with people. We are brainwashing our society into eating less rations, and calling smaller boxed ( plastic casing ) goods futuristic. All we need to do is get rid of god, and our world will have an super war, just like the one in LOGANS RUN, and that is what society will be like.
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Old 07-08-2014, 07:40 AM
 
1,248 posts, read 1,379,665 times
Reputation: 639
1,700 year old statue.......that is stupid. No way that is true at all, anybody saying so is an outright liar. That is artifacts, so do not be stupid. How stupid could an person be.
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Old 07-08-2014, 07:41 AM
 
6,324 posts, read 4,307,929 times
Reputation: 4333
Quote:
Originally Posted by RegalSin View Post
1,700 year old statue.......that is stupid. No way that is true at all, anybody saying so is an outright liar. That is artifacts, so do not be stupid. How stupid could an person be.
I don't know, but I think you're about to find out.
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Old 07-08-2014, 08:09 AM
 
3,402 posts, read 2,779,219 times
Reputation: 1325
Quote:
Originally Posted by RegalSin View Post
1,700 year old statue.......that is stupid. No way that is true at all, anybody saying so is an outright liar. That is artifacts, so do not be stupid. How stupid could an person be.
Umm, lot of things are older than that... The Great Sphinx of Giza is well over 4000 years old. The Buddahs of Bamiyan were built just after 500 AD. The oldest church in Britain was built less than 50 years after the second Buddah. Clearly this is not out of the ordinary.

Out of morbid curiosity, why would you think it impossible that statues would be 1700 years old?

-NoCapo
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Old 07-08-2014, 08:46 AM
 
7,801 posts, read 6,354,824 times
Reputation: 2988
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
Ok, so now you are claiming as fact that Jesus is a myth?
My claim which you so transparently avoided here is that there exists many parallels between the Jesus story and ones that came before it. Just like there are many parallels between The Lion the witch and the wardrobe and the Jesus story. This is common in fiction that themes and imagery are revisited and recycled.

That there is no corroborating evidence for the existence of the Nazarene outside your pet Bible is what I would base any claim of "myth" on but that was not my main point, and you know it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
It's sad though that you need to talk trash about CS Lewis and his work which has been enjoyed by countless people.
So acknowledging parallels between the stories is "talking thrash" now is it? You really are a sensitive soul. But your over sensitivity does not change the fact that those parallels are there. Lewis borrows heavily from Christian mythology and themes in the writing of that series. Blatantly so. Ignoring that will not make it go away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
Then again, you completely devalue archaeology since you are basically saying it is impossible to verify history from fiction.
Not what I said at all and you seemingly are just continuing your usual MO of misrepresenting what I say.

There are many ways of substantiating that some claims are history and not fiction. Simply pointing at a book and verifying some of the locations in it using archaeology is not it. That is all I am saying and my point is not going to go away no matter how many times you lie about what I actually said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
If you want to trot out fallacies as a defense
I am not using any fallacies to defend anything. I am pointing out the fallacies YOU are using to defend your position. Learn the difference kid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
Your bold claim that any Christian having a supernatural experience is suffering from hallucination is an example of that.
It would be if I had done that. But I never did. You are just lying about my posts. Again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
So in other words, you believe that you can make ANY claim that you want and not have to back it up apparently.
Again not what I said. You are just lying about my posts. [b]Again

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
I believe if you are claiming that the Bible is fiction, not as a personal belief but as an established fact then back it up! Otherwise, it is just biased talk.
Again not what I said. You are just lying about my posts. [b]Again

I am not claiming it is fiction. I am claiming that we have not seen a single reason (much less from you) to think it is not fiction. Learn the difference son.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
I will gladly admit that I am no legal expert so if my statement was wrong then explain why without the brow beating.
I just did tell you where you were wrong. Do you want me to repeat myself or what? If being told you are wrong is "brow beating" then for the second time in this post I have to suggest you are simply over sensitive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
Your comments still doesn't sound right to me. How is personal testimony corroborated then? Multiple witnesses? But you just said that was a logical fallacy.
That depends on what the claim is obviously. Peronalal testimony can be corroborated by many things. If for example I claim you assaulted me with a knife but I have _no other evidence_ you will not be prosecuted. Because as I just told you _we do not prosecute people on testimony alone_.

If however I can show the knife wounds, produce a knife with a stab patter matching the wounds, this knife has my blood on one end and your finger prints at the other end..... then we have now corroborated my personal testimony on the matter.

See the difference now? Learnt anything from it?
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Old 07-08-2014, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
31,374 posts, read 20,091,717 times
Reputation: 14069
Quote:
Originally Posted by RegalSin View Post
1,700 year old statue.......that is stupid. No way that is true at all, anybody saying so is an outright liar. That is artifacts, so do not be stupid. How stupid could an person be.


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Old 07-08-2014, 10:07 AM
 
10,077 posts, read 5,708,216 times
Reputation: 2892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
My claim which you so transparently avoided here is that there exists many parallels between the Jesus story and ones that came before it. Just like there are many parallels between The Lion the witch and the wardrobe and the Jesus story. This is common in fiction that themes and imagery are revisited and recycled.

That there is no corroborating evidence for the existence of the Nazarene outside your pet Bible is what I would base any claim of "myth" on but that was not my main point, and you know it.

Your exact words were:

"The Jesus Myth for example has many parallels to Myths that came before it. The Lion, Witch and Wardrobe series for example also make poorly concealed attempts to validate Christian Mythology"

Here you are claiming AS FACT that the Jesus story is a myth. I am simply asking you to prove it. Prove to me that the authors of the Bible borrowed from other myths.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post

So acknowledging parallels between the stories is "talking thrash" now is it? You really are a sensitive soul. But your over sensitivity does not change the fact that those parallels are there. Lewis borrows heavily from Christian mythology and themes in the writing of that series. Blatantly so. Ignoring that will not make it go away.

You could have simply said that you saw parallels in the story. But no, in typical fashion, you say C S Lewis did a poor job. Besides, Lewis never hid the fact that the book series was based on the story of Jesus.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post

Not what I said at all and you seemingly are just continuing your usual MO of misrepresenting what I say.

There are many ways of substantiating that some claims are history and not fiction. Simply pointing at a book and verifying some of the locations in it using archaeology is not it. That is all I am saying and my point is not going to go away no matter how many times you lie about what I actually said.
And my point that archaeology serves as a point of EVIDENCE in favor of the Bible stands. That alone puts the scales in my favor since you have zero proof that the Bible authors all conspired to create a work of fiction.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post

I am not using any fallacies to defend anything. I am pointing out the fallacies YOU are using to defend your position. Learn the difference kid.
I pointed out the fallacies that you use. Simply denying it doesn't make you right.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post

I just did tell you where you were wrong. Do you want me to repeat myself or what? If being told you are wrong is "brow beating" then for the second time in this post I have to suggest you are simply over sensitive.
And I responded that your insult was not to my satisfaction. Give me some supporting links if I am to believe that personal testimony alone is NEVER accepted in a court of law.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post

That depends on what the claim is obviously. Peronalal testimony can be corroborated by many things. If for example I claim you assaulted me with a knife but I have _no other evidence_ you will not be prosecuted. Because as I just told you _we do not prosecute people on testimony alone_.

If however I can show the knife wounds, produce a knife with a stab patter matching the wounds, this knife has my blood on one end and your finger prints at the other end..... then we have now corroborated my personal testimony on the matter.
Again, you are mixing proof and evidence. A person's testimony may not prove anything, but it is a point of evidence that a jury should consider.
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