All religion will be destroyed. (Egyptian, Mary, Catholicism, Vatican)
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And my point that archaeology serves as a point of EVIDENCE in favor of the Bible stands. That alone puts the scales in my favor since you have zero proof that the Bible authors all conspired to create a work of fiction.
I'm constrained to point out that no one has ever suggested a conspiracy of Biblical authors to create a work of fiction. This is an absurd exaggeration on your part to make what is ACTUALLy being alleged seem ridiculous.
When we say that the Bible makes a lot of unsubstantiated (and generally unsubstantiatable) claims, we are not implying a conspiracy. No conspiracy is needed. People have believed certain things and written about them over the generations, nothing more or less than that. Simply asserting a believed thing does not make it so.
The only thing remotely resembling a "conspiracy" is that people have persisted over the generations in promoting the same (albeit evolving) system of beliefs because it has served various social and political purposes. Even this is not a matter of collusion but just of utility.
I'm constrained to point out that no one has ever suggested a conspiracy of Biblical authors to create a work of fiction. This is an absurd exaggeration on your part to make what is ACTUALLy being alleged seem ridiculous.
When we say that the Bible makes a lot of unsubstantiated (and generally unsubstantiatable) claims, we are not implying a conspiracy. No conspiracy is needed. People have believed certain things and written about them over the generations, nothing more or less than that. Simply asserting a believed thing does not make it so.
The only thing remotely resembling a "conspiracy" is that people have persisted over the generations in promoting the same (albeit evolving) system of beliefs because it has served various social and political purposes. Even this is not a matter of collusion but just of utility.
Then you have a very watered down vague understanding of the Bible. Rick Warren said it best:
"The Bible also tells one story with consistency. It was written over a 1,500-year time span, on three continents, and by 40 authors — people from every walk of life, like kings, shepherds, fishermen, and tax collectors. Yet the Bible tells one story from beginning to end: God’s love and salvation for man and how he came into this world through Jesus Christ. It’s an amazing example of the power of God to write that story for our lives."
The archaeological "evidence" barely even qualifies. It's like naming someone a suspect in a crime when the only evidence you have is that the accused was in the same town where the crime was committed.
"Well, sir, there was a murder in New York City last night, and you WERE in New York City, so we're going to take you in for questioning ..."
And yet you will stand here and proudly claim that the LACK of archaeological evidence proves that the Exodus never happen. Let's face it, you only want to dismiss archaeology when it fly against your faith yes faith in atheism.
I'm not seeing where every form of personal witness testimony is defined as "hearsey". For example, Latoya Ammons personal testimony of living in a demon possessed house doesn't prove conclusively that the house was haunted, but it at least suggests the possibility that something happened. CPA documentation and testimony from law enforcement backing up her claims significantly adds to that evidence.
Except I have used none. I have done nothing more than point out the ones YOU use. Pointing out the fallacies of another is not itself a fallacy. No matter how much you need to pretend otherwise.
Wrong - Argumentum ad hominem - It doesn't take long for you to turn the argument against me personally with big adjectives about how boldly ignorant or clueless I am.
Argumentum ad ignorantiam - Your statement "Jesus is a myth" is proof of this. You can not conclusively say this as fact just because there isn't reams of evidence out there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo
As usual you are using your MO tactic of making a claim, having that claim called into question, and then dodging by attempting to shift the onus of proof onto the people who fail to buy your assertions.
In post #153 you brought up the idea of how testimony is used in law. Not me. You. The onus therefore is on you to substantiate your claims about how testimony is used in law. Not on me. So YOU give ME some supporting links that show that entirely uncorroborated personal testimony is used in law.
I gave you an example. Show me what % of rare accusations were found guilty when supported by nothing but the victims accusation and testimony.
Can you find a %? Can you even find one example? Or do you retract your nonsense for once?
I'm sure it happens all the time. The West Memphis 3 are an example of a case that sentenced three boys based solely on personal testimony. There was not a single piece of physical evidence linking them to the crime.
I'm not seeing where every form of personal witness testimony is defined as "hearsey". For example, Latoya Ammons personal testimony of living in a demon possessed house doesn't prove conclusively that the house was haunted, but it at least suggests the possibility that something happened. CPA documentation and testimony from law enforcement backing up her claims significantly adds to that evidence.
And if you'd looked closely at that article, you would have noted rule 803 states:
Quote:
The following are not excluded by the rule against hearsay, re-
gardless of whether the declarant is available as a witness:
(8)
Public Records.
A record or statement of a public office if:
(A) it sets out:
(i) the office’s activities;
(ii) a matter observed while under a legal duty to re-
port, but not including, in a criminal case, a matter
observed by law-enforcement personnel; or
(iii) in a civil case or against the government in a
criminal case, factual findings from a legally author-
ized investigation; and
(B) neither the source of information nor other circum-
stances indicate a lack of trustworthiness.
Law enforcement officers are 'under a legal duty to report', as in section ii; it is then considered a 'statement of a public office', which is (hopefully) a factual recording of events.
Additionally, the document I linked firmly defines what is, and is not, considered hearsay in the US court system.
Not exactly. The OT is only confirmed by some events but not all (For example Ezekiel 26, the prophecy of Tyre is undoubtedly incorrect)
Yes some events are confirmed--probably an impossibility to confirm everyone. But the more that are point to it all being truth--I am fully confident it is truth.
And yet you will stand here and proudly claim that the LACK of archaeological evidence proves that the Exodus never happen. Let's face it, you only want to dismiss archaeology when it fly against your faith yes faith in atheism.
With the technology of today, it seems they could search the red sea--over one million to be Israelites crossed over--the armies that followed had to have been pretty large--all killed.---- somethings must be buried or many things--chariots, swords, helmets--possible all decayed by now, but maybe not maybe preserved being buried. If the red sea is salty--possible destroyed forever. if not something has to be there.
Then you have a very watered down vague understanding of the Bible. Rick Warren said it best:
"The Bible also tells one story with consistency. It was written over a 1,500-year time span, on three continents, and by 40 authors — people from every walk of life, like kings, shepherds, fishermen, and tax collectors. Yet the Bible tells one story from beginning to end: God’s love and salvation for man and how he came into this world through Jesus Christ. It’s an amazing example of the power of God to write that story for our lives."
So then Jews are Christian because the story of Jesus "bringing God into the world" is in the OT? I don't think so.
Who were the shepherds, fishermen, and tax collectors that wrote some of Constantine's or James's bibles? The Jewish scriptures were written by Religious leaders (Kings, Prophets) so were the NT writings (Church Fathers). All of these people had religious agendas.
Thanks for writing that story "God" ...really living up to your full potential and responsibilities there.
Think about how much better it would be for "God's love and salvation for man" if "God" had just saved and purified Adam and Eve instead of banishing and abandoning them. Or at least if "God" had tended his garden and guarded his flawed children from snakes and accessible fruits.
Rick Warren is mistaken (probably just wants his belief to be true).
Perhaps you would do well to look up what this phrase means before you continue to misuse it so badly. I have addressed your points and explained..... at great length..... where they fail. That is the exact opposite of "ad hominem".
The one actively engaged in it however is you. For example when you dismiss people and simply say they are "from satan". That is a cop out piece of nonsense that allows you to simply ignore any arguments you do not like.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Your statement "Jesus is a myth" is proof of this. You can not conclusively say this as fact
Because I do not need to. You continously pretend you do not understand the concept of "Burden of Proof" despite having had it explained to you on numerous occasions by more than one poster. All of them quite clearly.
The fact is that you have a book and that book has a character in it called Jesus. You want to claim this character really existed and the events in the book really happened.
So that means the onus of evidence lies with you. Entirely. Not with me. And so far you have failed entirely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
I'm sure it happens all the time.
Great then you will have no issue with meeting my request to show a % on this. You should be able to find statistics showing that it happens "all the time". If you could show it happens even.... lets throw out a figure..... 40% of the time I will be impressed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
The West Memphis 3 are an example of a case that sentenced three boys based solely on personal testimony.
Nice bit of historical revisionism from you here.
That case involved CONFESSIONS. That is entirely different. Murder weapons were also found which had edges consistent with the wounds. Fibres from the victims clothes were found to match items in the accused house and vice versa. Also a necklace with blood on it was found.
Now we can argue that case and whether each of those pieces of evidence should have been accepted or not but that is not the point. The point IS that your claim the case was based SOLELY (your exact word) on personal testimony is simply false.
Try again and put the goal posts back where they were before you do so son.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
And yet you will stand here and proudly claim that the LACK of archaeological evidence proves that the Exodus never happen.
No but the LACK of such evidence means we have now no reason to think the event DID happen. Which is all I have been saying so far. All you do in response however is pretend that me saying "There is no reason to think X is true" is the same as me saying "X is 100% false" and then asking me to evidence the latter when I in fact said the former.
And you have done this so consistently that it is really just your MO at this point. All you do is:
1) Make a claim
2) Wait for someone to suggest your claim is basis
3) Dodge by demanding someone evidence the OPPOSITE claim to yours or by claiming they actually MADE the opposite claim as yours.
4) Rinse and repeat.
And so far the only person who appears impressed by, or fooled by, your little MO tactic here is.... wait for it.... you. No one else is buying it.
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