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To clarify, I DID NOT state that moral absolutes are "dependent on one's own conscience and situation."
It's going to be a really short discussion if you continue to quote me out of context.
See your post below in response to me asking you to list what you think are 'moral absolutes'. The red highlighting is mine but the words were yours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceist
Could you please list the 'moral absolutes' to which you refer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigetmax24
The short easy answer: Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind and love your neighbor as you love yourself.
The Longer detailed answer: Basically, all prohibitions clearly defined in the NT. Essentially, gentiles were not required to convert to Judaism in order to become Christians. However, in BASIC PRINCIPLE the OT laws are still found to be applicable in a BASIC sense based upon one's conscience and the given situation.
As it pertains to the relation between church and state, for the most part, it would be the Ten Commandments and Golden Rule.
You might want to study up on this a bit. After checking the Constitution out for himself, Frederick Douglass eventually concluded that it actually paved the way for an end to slavery. Slavery would not have ended here or in Great Britain without the persistent battling efforts of committed Christian anti-slavery activists. They did this because they were convinced that slavery was objectively wrong.
...but then, I suppose you find it more convenient to ignore the truth.
Here's an interesting article about Frederick Douglass giving a speech about the American Evangelist Churches' efforts to UPHOLD slavery in America.
Slavery in the Pulpit of the Evangelical Alliance: An Address Delivered in London, England, on September 14, 1846
Mr. Frederick Douglass rose to address the audience. He said that he had determined not to speak, as he could add nothing to what had been so eloquently told them; but since they showed a readiness to hear him, he would just say a few words, and add his testimony to that already given as to the character of American slavery, and the religion of the land in which it was upheld and sustained. The slave system in America finds no stronger ally in any quarter than in the American church.
You will observe, that during the speeches of Mr. Garrison and Mr. Thompson, special reference has been made to the church in America. Why, Sir, do we so often allude to this, and make special attacks on the American church and clergy? It is not because we have any war with them as a body of Christians, not because we have any war with the ministers in America, as such,—not at all; but they have thrown themselves across the pathway of emancipation, and made it our duty to make war upon them, or desert the cause of the slave. Why, Sir, the political parties in the United States that uphold the sin of slavery dwindle into insignificance, when compared with the power exercised by the church to uphold and sustain that system.
It is from the pulpit that we have sermons on behalf of slavery; ....
Here's an interesting article about Frederick Douglass giving a speech about the American Evangelist Churches' efforts to UPHOLD slavery in America.
Slavery in the Pulpit of the Evangelical Alliance: An Address Delivered in London, England, on September 14, 1846
I don't recall stating that all Christians, Christian denominations and Christian factions were united in their view of slavery or how to properly understand or interpret the Bible. Many did then as people often do today, in that they form a political view or a particular view of society and then try to force their interpretation of the Bible into that mode. In other words, instead of seeking to get a TRUE understanding of theology and then allowing that TRUTH to inform their political view, their theology (those that have one) is instead informed by their political view.
This is just as common in our culture today where we see Christians and people claiming to be Christians somehow finding supposedly Biblical ways to justify abortion on demand, sex between same sex couples or organized theft through the use of Government power...to name a few.
The fact that people will find all sorts of ways to misinterpret scripture means what?
Also, are you inferring here that we should completely ignore the historical truth of the efforts of Christians who actually were convinced that slavery was OBJECTIVELY wrong and in many cases gave their lives in the cause of slave emancipation? That we should ignore the efforts of people like William Wilberforce?
Does the Bible actually teach that the American system of slavery was justified?
First . . . there is only ONE God. What YOU believe about Him may differ from what I believe about Him . . . but our beliefs have no bearing on His reality or existence. I consider all human beings to be my brothers and sisters . . . sorry you do not agree. Knowing what is true and what is not is easy under the New Covenant instituted by Christ. God has "written in our hearts " and Christ abides with us as the Comforter to guide us to the truth in agape love. God IS agape love . . . so that is the ultimate standard and Spirit against which we TEST the Spirit of any verse using the "mind of Christ" and the Comforter. Sorry you do not believe the New Covenant and prefer to retain the Old "written in ink" and stone.
I'm really not here to debate with you about what may or may not be considered as a true understanding of what Christianity actually is. I just wanted to make it clear that we each have very different ideas about what it means to be a Christ follower. Theoretically we could both be wrong, but logically, we can't both be right.
I believe the last part of your statement speaks volumes. If we are free to ignore the Bible or simply choose certain parts of the Bible to accept, it becomes very easy to create a god in our own image and imagination. I see no logical reason whatsoever as to why anyone should accept your own personal view or brand of "Christianity." Especially in view of the apparent fact that there's no way for us to know what your personal brand of "Christianity" actually is unless we ask you.
All very convenient if one has aspirations of leading a cult of some sort or another.
normally, one not coninced that it must be right and concern for the well-being of others. Good qualities that help a lot in keeping us from being self-righteous.
I would truly love to respond but I'm afraid that I'm unable to make heads or tails out of what it is you're trying to say.
I'm really not here to debate with you about what may or may not be considered as a true understanding of what Christianity actually is. I just wanted to make it clear that we each have very different ideas about what it means to be a Christ follower. Theoretically we could both be wrong, but logically, we can't both be right.
Actually we both can be right. Following Jesus is right . . . WHY we do so is largely irrelevant. Politics and religion unfortunately do connect all too often . . . but they shouldn't. "Render unto Caesar . . ." Besides in my estimation politics is fundamentally susceptible to evil via the exercise of power. After all the word "Poly" means "many" and "ticks" are "blood suckers."
Last edited by MysticPhD; 08-10-2014 at 01:10 PM..
I vote in politics by my beliefs. If you don't like it, tough. You'd have to destroy the constitution to eliminate my rights. But that isn't going to happen so lol. Good luck in life.
I would truly love to respond but I'm afraid that I'm unable to make heads or tails out of what it is you're trying to say.
Sorry.
perhaps you don't read "typo" Someone with an open mind is one who is not convinced that he MUST be right and "love" in our conversations is concern for the well-being of others. Both qualities tend to keep us from being self-righteous. both are qualities Mystic displays. I hope that helps.
Actually we both can be right. Following Jesus is right . . . WHY we do so is largely irrelevant.
IMHO the "WHY" is everything because it speaks to the WHO. Who is Jesus? Who is God? If we disagree about THAT, and obviously we do, then it logically follows that our views are at odds - that they CONTRADICT. Therefore and logically, there's no possible way for us to "both be right."
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Politics and religion unfortunately do connect all too often . . . but they shouldn't. "Render unto Caesar . . ."
...but you have no problem with the connection between godless philosophy and politics? In other words, it's fine to impose godlessness through political activism - anything - so long as it cannot be linked somehow with "religion?"
Is it logically possible to separate philosophy and politics? ...or are you suggesting that our political view should actually BE (one-in-the-same) our philosophical and "religious" view?
What does it mean to "render unto Caesar?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Besides in my estimation politics is fundamentally susceptible to evil via the exercise of power. After all the word "Poly" means "many" and "ticks" are "blood suckers."
Politics has no ability to actually be "evil" in and of itself. People ARE evil and therefore, unchecked power WILL be used for evil purposes. It seems to me that the only way to thwart powerful people who are committed to establishing evil is to counter their efforts with people committed to establishing good - "good" being basically defined as truth and justice.
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