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Old 06-30-2014, 07:09 PM
 
331 posts, read 491,841 times
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Theist: God created the universe and God spontaneously sprang into existence (or always existed or whatever).
Non-Theist: The universe spontaneously sprang into existence (or always existed or whatever).
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Old 06-30-2014, 07:17 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,571 posts, read 20,562,956 times
Reputation: 20991
Actually, while neither argument enjoys unassailable proof, the notion that the universe, or at least the materials and forces which generated the universe, have always exitsed, is the more evidence based one.

At least we know, assuming that all is not illusion, that these materials and forces exist. We see them, we feel them, we measure them, we are able to predict their behavior in specified circumstances. They exist, therefore we would only need to prove that their existence has been perpetual.

We have no such evidence for a creator, therefore before we could prove that the creator has always existed, we would first have to establish that it exists at all.

So, the smart money would be on the perpetual nature of matter and energy.
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Old 06-30-2014, 07:21 PM
 
Location: Walt Disney World
18,089 posts, read 10,027,548 times
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The only two options are ID or a cosmic accident. In reality, there are no accidents.
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Old 06-30-2014, 07:48 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,571 posts, read 20,562,956 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
. In reality, there are no accidents.
You assert this but provide no accompanying argument or reasons to believe it. Do you have some proof?
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Old 06-30-2014, 07:51 PM
 
Location: Walt Disney World
18,089 posts, read 10,027,548 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
You assert this but provide no accompanying argument or reasons to believe it. Do you have some proof?
Can you think of any, accidents that is?
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Old 06-30-2014, 07:58 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,571 posts, read 20,562,956 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Can you think of any, accidents that is?

Please....provide the proof or evidence you employed in reaching your conclusion that there are no such things as accidents.

Your above question is asking me for the proof that there are accidents and I have made no such assertion, have I? You are the one doing the asserting, therefore you must provide your reasoning.

Do you have any evidence? Do you have any proof? How is it that you know that nothing is accidental? In what manner are you able to distinguish accident from unknown purpose?
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Old 06-30-2014, 08:08 PM
 
47,652 posts, read 30,115,318 times
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Default Why is "God created the universe" more logical than "The universe sprang into existence by itself"?

Because it is saying the exact same thing . . . just without a label. Regardless of all the definitions and attributes and nonsense associated with the God concept . . . the fact that everything came into being IS the most primal act of God.
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Old 06-30-2014, 08:15 PM
 
Location: Walt Disney World
18,089 posts, read 10,027,548 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Please....provide the proof or evidence you employed in reaching your conclusion that there are no such things as accidents.

Your above question is asking me for the proof that there are accidents and I have made no such assertion, have I? You are the one doing the asserting, therefore you must provide your reasoning.

Do you have any evidence? Do you have any proof? How is it that you know that nothing is accidental? In what manner are you able to distinguish accident from unknown purpose?
The fact that you cannot name one accident, is my proof.
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Old 06-30-2014, 08:23 PM
 
Location: USA
17,115 posts, read 9,206,273 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by const_iterator View Post
Theist: God created the universe and God spontaneously sprang into existence (or always existed or whatever).
Non-Theist: The universe spontaneously sprang into existence (or always existed or whatever).
Neither one is comprehensible to my poor little mind. Is there another choice?
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Old 06-30-2014, 09:06 PM
2K5Gx2km
 
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
The only two options are ID or a cosmic accident. In reality, there are no accidents.
BS - you were called on this before in another thread and just left because you were shown to be WRONG. Now you just jump in here making the same unsubstantiated claims.

He is trolling again!

Here is the thread: //www.city-data.com/forum/relig...explain-18.htm
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