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So you don't have an opinion? Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the OP say where SHOULD it stop? Sounds like you have faith in the courts, but they have proved that the conservatives on the court aren't after what is best for the country, but best for their own agendas. The slippery slope has indeed started memphisblues, and the religious nuts won't stop until they can discriminate against everyone they please. If many more of these ridiculous things happen, I will stop looking for places to live here in America, and go somewhere with less nut jobs trying to force their religion into everyone's lives. While I'm here, since when has birth control or hiring gays been a no-no according to the bible? These people just keep getting dumber and nuttier.
Well, I'm an immigrant to the US; I fought to get here. I fought to get here because I thought it was the land of freedom. Yeah, no joke. I realize that sounds corny, something out of a Captain America movie. But it's true nonetheless.
And then I realize that this country is filled with religious fanatics who aren't really much better than the fundy Muslims they profess to hate. It's no wonder that Christianity and Islam have been at each others' throats since the Reagan administration (and whaddya know, Reagan was a fundy too, and so was his VP, George H.W. Bush who callously told reporters that atheists were neither US citizens or patriots).
The gay-hating fundy Christians and fundy Islam ... they're both like a cat seeing itself in a mirror and hissing at its own reflection.
I'm like you in a way. I had an argument with my aunt just last night, a shouting match, because I got sick of her sitting around claiming gays were also pedophiles who had sexual urges for young children. I completely lost my temper, hearing such crap coming out of the mouth of my own flesh and blood. And yeah, she's a Christian, too, big time. When I tried to explain to her -why- she was wrong, all she said again and again was, "I don't care! I don't care! I don't care! You're not going to change my mind. I don't care!"
I guess bigotry combined with the smugness of perceived moral righteousness causes people to just not care if what they're saying is truthful or not. She doesn't have to like gays, but dammit, if she's going to bash them, at least do so with facts instead of the lies and propaganda coming out of the Christian right.
I sometimes wonder, seriously wonder, why I even came to this country - especially knowing that we're simply reliving the same old historical mistakes that were made again and again. Because a significant percentage of Americans just aren't happy unless there's a group of people they can kick around and get away with it.
I warned people that the Hobby Lobby decision would cause a slippery slope reaction, an opening of Pandora's Box, that would allow this kind of blatant religious discrimination to thrive. And less than a few days after the judge banged his gavel closing the case, religious hate groups are falling over themselves to push their fascistic agenda onto the rest of society.
That should be a lesson to Christians who think they're on the "right" side of morality by supporting religious fascism. .
There is only one side of right and that is what God says it is. He makes the rules. "Religious facism" is an interesting phrase, but if you mean it to describe those that try to obey God's unchangeable absolutes of right and wrong, then call me a fascist.
Yes, I am familiar with Rohm and his brown shirts. If I am persecuted by people calling themselves Christians while embracing willful sin, so be it. Jesus told us we would have to drink from His cup. Let God be true and every man a liar.
There is only one side of right and that is what God says it is. He makes the rules. "Religious facism" is an interesting phrase, but if you mean it to describe those that try to obey God's unchangeable absolutes of right and wrong, then call me a fascist.
No, that is -not- what I'm referring to when I talk of fascists. You're free to obey God all you want. What makes it fascism is when you try to pass laws and organize open discrimination to force everyone else to obey God, too - regardless of what they believe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi
Yes, I am familiar with Rohm and his brown shirts. If I am persecuted by people calling themselves Christians while embracing willful sin, so be it. Jesus told us we would have to drink from His cup. Let God be true and every man a liar.
There is only one side of right and that is what God says it is. He makes the rules. "Religious facism" is an interesting phrase, but if you mean it to describe those that try to obey God's unchangeable absolutes of right and wrong, then call me a fascist.
Yes, I am familiar with Rohm and his brown shirts. If I am persecuted by people calling themselves Christians while embracing willful sin, so be it. Jesus told us we would have to drink from His cup. Let God be true and every man a liar.
So god said to persecute gays? Must be some fantastic god you worship that allows you to persecute those you hate. Where does it say to discriminate in hiring practices? Can you point that out for me? I'd be interested in reading that passage.
And the slippery slope has started already. Fantastic, what's next? Should I, as a non believer, be able to discriminate against the religious?
Based on the behavior of the court, only against Protestants and non-Christians. Catholics get special magical powers compared to those given to other puny religions.
I sometimes wonder, seriously wonder, why I even came to this country - .
It seems to be that you thought you could indulge your own willfull sins here and that people would accept you without qualification. BTW, there are outbound flights daily.
So god said to persecute gays? Must be some fantastic god you worship that allows you to persecute those you hate. Where does it say to discriminate in hiring practices? Can you point that out for me? I'd be interested in reading that passage.
Hiring practices? Are we both in the same conversation?
Opposing immoraity is not discrimination. It is the right thing to do.
Imposing faith based morality is not the right thing to do. Take care up your own actions and let your god take care of judging the morality of others. Isn't that what Jesus said to do? The business in Mathew...
Quote:
And why do you observe the mote in your brother's eye, but you are insensible of the splinter in your own eye?
Is it a matter of picking and choosing what admonitions to follow? The same book which you think justifies your discrimination, clearly tells you to mind your own business and see to your own morality, not that of others.
So, you have selected what teaching to follow and which to ignore. That means it isn't Jesus doing the discriminating, it is you hiding behind religion to exercise your own prejudices.
Personally, this is what happens when Faith-based groups and the Government drink from the same well. One of the hundred or so White House "faith based" organizations World Vision already passed then reversed LGBT protections when donors squawked. They're trying to have their cake and eat it to.
Absolutely! While I strongly disagree with their religious convictions, I feel that it is a necessary part of religious liberty to allow religious organizations to apply religious restrictions to themselves. It makes perfect sense to me that a church that hold divorce to be sinful would not allow divorcees to be employees. It is a tenet of their faith.
However, what is at issue is religious groups acting as government contractors. If a religious charity is going to act on behalf of the United States Government, with government money, and government approval, then it must hold itself to governmental standards. There should be no exceptions to this, religious or otherwise. To allow the government to circumvent restrictions on its behavior by hiring private contractors is not only ridiculous, it is dangerous. While the harm caused by hiring discrimination may be relatively minor, and mostly an abstract affront to justice, what happens when this principle is extended to SWAT teams (Hint, this is already being done in New England...)? Do we really want to set the precendent that the government can sidestep Constitutional boundaries, by hiring a contractor?
Ultimately this is, as Al points out, a problem of intermingling government and religion. If religious charities would content themselves with private funding, they would not have this conflict. It is when religion wants to eat at the feeding trough of an overreaching government that there is a conflict. I believe Jesus has some words about this, "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's."
-NoCapo
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