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Once there was a time when more people had a high degree of spiritual intuition than today. Perhaps it was due to the times they lived in, where, paradoxically, the bulk of common society was far more barbaric and unenlightened, despite the existence of the more enlightened folk among them.
As such, some of the more enlightened people had some stark reality warnings through visions, dreams and near death experiences: the hell of sin and a barbaric lifestyle, and the reality it leads to. The article gives 10 examples of interesting visions of hell.
our guide descends deeper and deeper into Hell, he encounters other former students lying motionless, worms chewing on their eyeballs, hearts, hands, and legs. When asked, his guardian angel says they will suffer this for all eternity “with absolutely no reprieve whatsoever.”
Well if you find people describing visions and hallucinations to you "scary" then I feel for you. But if it makes you feel any better I can inform you that in 18+years of various levels and forms of inquiry into the subject.... I have found absolutely zero evidence, arguments, data or reasoning to suggest there is an after life of any kind. Let alone the "hell" that plays havoc with your excretory cycle.
I am sure you find this very relieving to know. Moderator cut: inappropriate
Last edited by mensaguy; 07-31-2014 at 03:48 AM..
Reason: inappropriate
I, among millions of other people, got a little leery of going in the water after seeing Jaws even though I knew it was make believe. It was a very successful movie in that respect.
It did not, however, stop most of us from swimming.
Is the point of bringing up this not unusual human reaction that some 'enlightened' people still can't differentiate between real and make believe when the subject is hell?
Was there a point?
Once there was a time when more people had a high degree of spiritual intuition than today. Perhaps it was due to the times they lived in, where, paradoxically, the bulk of common society was far more barbaric and unenlightened, despite the existence of the more enlightened folk among them.
As such, some of the more enlightened people had some stark reality warnings through visions, dreams and near death experiences: the hell of sin and a barbaric lifestyle, and the reality it leads to. The article gives 10 examples of interesting visions of hell.
our guide descends deeper and deeper into Hell, he encounters other former students lying motionless, worms chewing on their eyeballs, hearts, hands, and legs. When asked, his guardian angel says they will suffer this for all eternity “with absolutely no reprieve whatsoever.”
Visions, dreams, and NDEs might be the manifesting symptoms of deep, internal stress.
Spiritual intuition is simply a type of human intuition, and human intuition is prone to mistakes; I don't think its a merit that our ancestors might have had more visions, dreams, or NDEs. Scaring oneself with ideas of Hells, Hades, etc. will only serve to accommodate such visions, dreams, and NDEs with such scary ideas. Here is something else that will scare you, keep in mind there is two pages: Roko's Basilisk
Don't worry though, the way to defeat a basilisk is secretly revealed in Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secretes movie (spoiler alert!), here: "This will kill it!" skip to 6:35 into the video if you feel you need the answer quick.
Once there was a time when more people had a high degree of spiritual intuition than today. Perhaps it was due to the times they lived in, where, paradoxically, the bulk of common society was far more barbaric and unenlightened, despite the existence of the more enlightened folk among them.
Hello MeteoMan.
I see no paradox here. The societies were "more barbaric" and these imaginings of hell are barbaric. Fits rather nicely if you ask me. As for the "high degree of spirituality" - I'd say that depends on how you define it. If you mean "controlled by their churches," then yes...they were "spiritual."
Incidentally, while these visions all come from various mystics and such, they can't all be correct, can they?
It appears Hell is a multi faceted dimension or range of dimensions which appear contradictory. I can't claim to verify the truth of any one particular account of another.
our guide descends deeper and deeper into Hell, he encounters other former students lying motionless, worms chewing on their eyeballs, hearts, hands, and legs. When asked, his guardian angel says they will suffer this for all eternity “with absolutely no reprieve whatsoever.”
You should ask yourself why you get off on this stuff. And why you worship a god who gets off on this stuff.
I don't "get off on it". I find it fascinating, as a spiritual seeker, yet a bit hard to believe, the notion that, could this really be the truth for us, if God is unconditionally loving? Or did we really choose this, through ignorance alone?
I don't "get off on it". I find it fascinating, as a spiritual seeker, yet a bit hard to believe, the notion that, could this really be the truth for us, if God is unconditionally loving? Or did we really choose this, through ignorance alone?
Speaking for myself, and I suspect any sane person, I certainly haven't chosen it, and if I as a mere puny human can't conceive of a way in which it would be fair to punish someone for simply being ignorant, then I am confident that any god worth the label would be no more disposed to such wanton cruelty.
In the Christian thought-system, as normally presented, hell is god's invention and consigning people to it is his choice. I don't pretend to know a coherent way to reconcile that with "unconditional love".
There is a minority position known as "universal reconciliation" which holds that god will eventually reconcile all to himself and that no one will spend eternity in hell. Some of those folks (perhaps most) don't believe in hell at all.
The way I always look at it is, what is the objective of any good penal system? It is (or should be) rehabilitation -- to turn criminal minds into responsible citizens and reintroduce them to society. That is what success should look like in a penal system. Success does not look like infinite torment regardless of the original offense. If god truly loves us, and has an issue with us, and has to have justice served, there are plenty of ways to do it other than hell. If humans can figure that principle out, so can god.
Follow the money and power and it's easy to see where such pernicious notions came from and why they persist. They play on people's fear and guilt, two things the church ought to be interested in easing rather than stirring up.
Speaking for myself, and I suspect any sane person, I certainly haven't chosen it, and if I as a mere puny human can't conceive of a way in which it would be fair to punish someone for simply being ignorant, then I am confident that any god worth the label would be no more disposed to such wanton cruelty.
In the Christian thought-system, as normally presented, hell is god's invention and consigning people to it is his choice. I don't pretend to know a coherent way to reconcile that with "unconditional love".
Neither do I! That's what I find interesting about it. These people who had these visions apparently had such spiritual lives and lived devoutly but yet they had these disturbing visions....
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant
The way I always look at it is, what is the objective of any good penal system? It is (or should be) rehabilitation -- to turn criminal minds into responsible citizens and reintroduce them to society. That is what success should look like in a penal system. Success does not look like infinite torment regardless of the original offense. If god truly loves us, and has an issue with us, and has to have justice served, there are plenty of ways to do it other than hell. If humans can figure that principle out, so can god.
Follow the money and power and it's easy to see where such pernicious notions came from and why they persist. They play on people's fear and guilt, two things the church ought to be interested in easing rather than stirring up.
I totally agree! I see no point in eternal punishment, eternal punishment isn't even punishment, but revenge. The fact that I see so many people in this world (and that's saying something) who are so forgiving does make me wonder how these "visionary" people could have experienced such hellish and dreadful sights in NDE's and visions at the hand of "God". Something doesn't add up.
Religion does have a lot to answer for here wrt power and fear mongering, exactly, and it must have had a brainwashing influence on the people who had these visions, as they clearly did put a lot of stock in it!
Anyway though, apart from God, the only other way these types of hell could be conceivably real was if it wasn't God punishing somebody per say, but us abusing our free will to create hellish dimensions that we then are spiritually "attracted to" when we physically die. God continuing to allow us to use our free will to stay trapped in that situation.
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