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Of course, how many pounds do you put on by having someone pray for you silently?
In other words, what harm is done?
I like knowing people are praying for me.
I respect the right of those who don't want me to pray for them. My feelings are not hurt when some one tells me they do not want me to pray for them. I prefer knowing that, that having them think they need to lie to keep from hurting my feelings.
I respect the right of those who don't want me to pray for them. My feelings are not hurt when some one tells me they do not want me to pray for them. I prefer knowing that, that having them think they need to lie to keep from hurting my feelings.
I don't disagree that it is good to respect people's right not to be prayed for. (In my mind, it's a little like not wanting people to hope good things for me, though.)
I think I'm mainly responding to the o.p.'s feeling of being insulted that anyone would even offer, when he acknowledges that the guy meant it as a helpful thing. It just doesn't seem like it is something worthy of getting upset over.
If someone offers to pray for you (on their own time) because you're going through a hard time, that's usually their way of letting you know they sympathize with your situation. And perhaps they aren't able to do more for you, or they don't know WHAT to do for you, but they still want to offer some form of support. Is that offensive?
I don't disagree that it is good to respect people's right not to be prayed for. (In my mind, it's a little like not wanting people to hope good things for me, though.)
I think I'm mainly responding to the o.p.'s feeling of being insulted that anyone would even offer, when he acknowledges that the guy meant it as a helpful thing. It just doesn't seem like it is something worthy of getting upset over.
If someone offers to pray for you (on their own time) because you're going through a hard time, that's usually their way of letting you know they sympathize with your situation. And perhaps they aren't able to do more for you, or they don't know WHAT to do for you, but they still want to offer some form of support. Is that offensive?
Maybe I am projecting my own experiences, but from the story related by the OP and my time in various churches, I have a different read on this. I sounds to me like the ex was trying to use the hospital stay as a crack in his a-religious armor to convert him, and brought in the big guns, the pastor, to "minister" to him. If you are going to pray silently for someone, why even ask them? At least in my experience, when someone asks if they can pray for you it means right no, out loud, possibly with the laying on of hands and/or annointing oil. The pastor was looking for a opening to proselytize, and the ex was upset, because he shut her and the pastor down and it made her look bad to the pastor.
Like I said, I could be projecting a bit much here, but I don't see that anything the ex and the pastor did was for his benefit, it was for their own. They were trying to use his illness and basic politeness as a wedge to badger him about his religious beliefs. This kind of behavior happened several times to my M-I-L asnd at this point, I have no tolerance for it. If someone wants to "minister" to someone, meet actual real needs and wait to be invited to proselytize. Don't mean to rant, but it is a bit of a sore subject for me, both becasue it happened to people in my family, and because I feel pretty crappy about the times when I was a believer that I did the exact same thing.
-NoCapo
Last edited by NoCapo; 07-31-2014 at 12:11 PM..
Reason: because City-Data's software is a racist, and thinks a word meaning a small crack is a slur
No offense, but you're off-topic. This is about believers praying for non-believers, not whose prayers are better. You clearly have an axe to grind against Roman Catholics, but that has nothing to do with the OP, even if your assertions are true.
Thanks.
Nothing of the sort. I just thought the findings were funny, and remembered the reputation alot of ppl have told me about stern nuns. This is all from wiki's article.
Anyway...
In general, asking to pray for you, is usually good intentioned. Let someone pray for you if you're sick, heading on a long/dangerous journey, etc. No problem. Now, I would have a beef with sympathy or mind control prayers.
"We're worried about you and would like to pray for you to see the right thing to do (which we of course know)"
You say "take your 'sympathetic' carcass out of here now."
Careful reading of the OP passage made me think this fell into this category. She brought the minister without your say (couldn't she simply have prayed for you? No, this was like a bully move, he won't listen to me, so I'll bring my pastor), and when you said no, she got angry. That is, you called her out on the dump she was taking on your personal rights.
Yea, that's exactly what I thought, NoCapo. She could have simply started praying. It's her right to do so, even aloud. Irt's not her right to force you to believe.
It is nice when that happens. When my mother in law was hospitalized in Tupelo with cancer, it was entirely opposite. She even had her doctor asking her if she knew where she would spend eternity, and lots of essentially religious bullying. It is just a little frustrating to see folks arguing that an patient in the hospital, potentially like my MIL, fighting for their life, is being insensitive by not wanting to be threatened with hellfire, proselytized, and harassed.
-NoCapo
I agree. I'm related to a hospice care chaplain and I think those who share his faith are greatly comforted by him. BUT, from what he's said, he also does the type of thing you mention in your post on occasion. Makes my skin crawl. Sadly, there's no way to convince someone like him that they aren't doing those people a great service by trying to "save them from hell".
I agree. I'm related to a hospice care chaplain and I think those who share his faith are greatly comforted by him. BUT, from what he's said, he also does the type of thing you mention in your post on occasion. Makes my skin crawl. Sadly, there's no way to convince someone like him that they aren't doing those people a great service by trying to "save them from hell".
You know, I could even accept that from a chaplain. I wouldn't like it, but he's a chaplain... what do you expect?
What made me furious is this was her attending physician who is doing this! His job is to keep her from dying, not to prepare her soul for the afterlife. I think that is what made my wife and I so angry about it, it was just entirely inappropriate. Just because they "mean well" in trying to save someone from a hell they have no evidence of doesn't excuse it.
Maybe I am projecting my own experiences, but from the story related by the OP and my time in various churches, I have a different read on this. I sounds to me like the ex was trying to use the hospital stay as a crack in his a-religious armor to convert him, and brought in the big guns, the pastor, to "minister" to him. If you are going to pray silently for someone, why even ask them? At least in my experience, when someone asks if they can pray for you it means right no, out loud, possibly with the laying on of hands and/or annointing oil. The pastor was looking for a opening to proselytize, and the ex was upset, because he shut her and the pastor down and it made her look bad to the pastor.
Like I said, I could be projecting a bit much here, but I don't see that anything the ex and the pastor did was for his benefit, it was for their own. They were trying to use his illness and basic politeness as a wedge to badger him about his religious beliefs. This kind of behavior happened several times to my M-I-L asnd at this point, I have no tolerance for it. If someone wants to "minister" to someone, meet actual real needs and wait to be invited to proselytize. Don't mean to rant, but it is a bit of a sore subject for me, both becasue it happened to people in my family, and because I feel pretty crappy about the times when I was a believer that I did the exact same thing.
-NoCapo
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144
Nothing of the sort. I just thought the findings were funny, and remembered the reputation alot of ppl have told me about stern nuns. This is all from wiki's article.
Anyway...
In general, asking to pray for you, is usually good intentioned. Let someone pray for you if you're sick, heading on a long/dangerous journey, etc. No problem. Now, I would have a beef with sympathy or mind control prayers.
"We're worried about you and would like to pray for you to see the right thing to do (which we of course know)"
You say "take your 'sympathetic' carcass out of here now."
Careful reading of the OP passage made me think this fell into this category. She brought the minister without your say (couldn't she simply have prayed for you? No, this was like a bully move, he won't listen to me, so I'll bring my pastor), and when you said no, she got angry. That is, you called her out on the dump she was taking on your personal rights.
Yea, that's exactly what I thought, NoCapo. She could have simply started praying. It's her right to do so, even aloud. Irt's not her right to force you to believe.
Okay. I've re-read the op and you both may be right. Perhaps I was putting too much into the way he worded it (people "having a discussion in their own minds"). If the wife and/or pastor were using it as an opportunity to pressure him in some way, I can understand his feelings.
I think Trout offered a good response to people who are just offering to pray as a show of their care and concern. And, imo, I think hiker's post gave a good alternative wording that isn't so intrusive, for people who work in health care facilities to use.
You know, I could even accept that from a chaplain. I wouldn't like it, but he's a chaplain... what do you expect?
I guess it depends on how the chaplain handles it. If the person wants to bring up the subject of where they're going to "spend eternity", then they're inviting the conversation. Otherwise, just offer a comforting presence in the way that best suits the person.
Quote:
What made me furious is this was her attending physician who is doing this! His job is to keep her from dying, not to prepare her soul for the afterlife. I think that is what made my wife and I so angry about it, it was just entirely inappropriate. Just because they "mean well" in trying to save someone from a hell they have no evidence of doesn't excuse it.
-NoCapo
No it doesn't. Sorry you all had to deal with that.
"I'll pray for you" is code for "I'm too lazy/uninterested/distant to do anything helpful." When I was going through cancer almost entirely by myself right out of college, I noticed that "I'll pray for you" was an easy "Goodbye and good luck" sort of sign off.
During that time, I kept up a blog where I very politely asked people to keep their prayers to themselves and that what I would really appreciate was rides to appointments, magazines to read during appointments, healthy food and prepared meals, help cleaning my apartment, help with laundry, or cash to try to pay for it all when I had only been in the workforce for 4 months. People who wanted to pray, light a candle, make an offering, whatever were welcome to do so, but please don't tell me. The ONLY negative reactions I got to that were the fundamentalist Christians who I grew up with - and it was made abundantly clear just how much the prayers are about the person offering them than the person they are directed to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSD610
You do realize that every time you speak about God or the lack of God that you are rejoicing in his name and presence right? That counts when you utter the phrase "Oh God" when referring to something in excitement, frustration, anger, or joy (just thought you should know).
I have always found it slightly amusing that those who shout from the roof tops that they do not believe in God are the ones who talk the longest and loudest about God....
That's an interesting theory, but not remotely true. For instance, I was just in Israel with a bunch of other Jewish young adults. While on a hike, I sprained my ankle and was seriously injured on some rocks that I fell on and ended up having to go to the hospital. The first thing the Israeli medic on the hike said to distract me from the fact that I was bleeding everywhere on top of a mountain with a huge piece of gravel stuck in my knee was that when I fell, I yelled, "Oh, Jesus Christ!" I noticed that every time we had to run to a bomb shelter, there were just as many "Christ"s as there were "Oy vey"s and other more colorful words in English, Hebrew, and Yiddish. Why? Because we don't believe, so the name is just a swear word to us. Most of us wouldn't say, "Oh, G-d" because of the religious and cultural implications, but "Oh, Christ" is commonplace. That doesn't mean I secretly think Jesus is the Mosiach or in any way divine - I know that's simply not true.
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